Can we get a pvp dummy?

Community Manager
Great suggestion. I'll be sure to bring it up with the team :)

That said, we're doing a lot of retuning of how health works in comparison to incoming damage in Warlords, with the hope that we won't need (or can significantly lessen the effects of) things like Battle Fatigue or Base Resilience. If all goes well, there shouldn't be as nearly as substantial of a difference between PvE and PvP damage output.

Still, it's a great suggestion, and there will likely still be at least a small difference (due to PvP Power if nothing else), so I'll make sure to pass it on.
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90 Human Warrior
11020
Great suggestion. I'll be sure to bring it up with the team :)

That said, we're doing a lot of retuning of how health works in comparison to incoming damage in Warlords, with the hope that we won't need (or can significantly lessen the effects of) things like Battle Fatigue or Base Resilience. If all goes well, there shouldn't be as nearly as substantial of a difference between PvE and PvP damage output.

Still, it's a great suggestion, and there will likely still be at least a small difference (due to PvP Power if nothing else), so I'll make sure to pass it on.


Have they decided on the squish and where the numbers will end up?
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100 Night Elf Druid
17800
01/13/2014 09:12 AMPosted by Noxin
Maybe include another one that you can heal and it has Battle Fatigue?

For sure :)


your ideas are out of this world

thats actually genius

wait maybe that one wasn't your idea.. its genius either way to whoever mentioned the healing one
Edited by Cylestria on 1/13/2014 11:28 AM PST
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88 Human Rogue
16050
If all goes well, there shouldn't be as nearly as substantial of a difference between PvE and PvP damage output.

Sounds like a good goal but probably to hard of goal to hit.
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Community Manager
01/13/2014 11:40 AMPosted by Whoknowz
If all goes well, there shouldn't be as nearly as substantial of a difference between PvE and PvP damage output.

Sounds like a good goal but probably to hard of goal to hit.


It's definitely tough, but we think we can at least get things a lot closer than they currently are.
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90 Orc Death Knight
Req
6730
Great suggestion. I'll be sure to bring it up with the team :)

That said, we're doing a lot of retuning of how health works in comparison to incoming damage in Warlords, with the hope that we won't need (or can significantly lessen the effects of) things like Battle Fatigue or Base Resilience. If all goes well, there shouldn't be as nearly as substantial of a difference between PvE and PvP damage output.

Still, it's a great suggestion, and there will likely still be at least a small difference (due to PvP Power if nothing else), so I'll make sure to pass it on.


Just my opinion of course, but I really think these devs just don't get it.

If the idea was to make pvp gear less viable for pve, and also make pve geared players feel at least a bit competitive in pvp, one only needs to use a little simple logic based on what we've seen this expac and the horrific results. K

Knowing the pve geared players can flat demolish pvp geared players in wpvp, what is the true cause? Resilience of course. Yes, to a small degree one can say pvp power has value, but it's insanely small in comparison to the raw stats of pve gear with much higher ilvls.

A simple solution:

1. REDUCE BASE resilience substantially.
2. Bring back resilience on pvp gear.
3. KEEP ilvl differences! yes keep them to prevent pvp geared folks from pve raids.
4. Increase the value of pvp power.

Results:
1. Pve geared players will still have some base resil. Obviously this needs to be worked out in PTR.
2. PVE geared players will still have a plethora more hit points. But will take some more dmg via pvp poower and less resil.
3. Pve geared players gear hits equally decent but because the pvp player has resil, it's not nearly as hard hitting as today.
4. PVE players will feel they have a reasonable chance in wpvp, and pvp players will feel they have a chance vs pve gear folks in wpvp. As it stands now, pvp players are more apt to no longer engage in a wpvp 1v1 or 1 v 2 situation just because they see the pve player has 200k more hp and has the pvp'er obviously out geared.

Full 74% base resil (or whatever it is) was the worst move ever with the massive ilvl spread in pve/pvp gear.

It isn't hard to figure out. Just use some simple logic and an open mind.
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90 Orc Death Knight
Req
6730
01/13/2014 11:47 AMPosted by Lore

Sounds like a good goal but probably to hard of goal to hit.


It's definitely tough, but we think we can at least get things a lot closer than they currently are.


There SHOULD be a difference in damage output between pve/pvp gear. Pve gear should hit harder in pve, and pvp gear should reduce dmg more in pvp.

I have zero interest in pve anymore. Have only occasionally done some celestials on my four 90's in hopes of winning a pvp item. I fully accept my damage output will be vastly lower than pve geared players. But I should not be getting 2 shot by pve'ers that have zero clue for the nuances of pvp. I should have a chance.
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90 Orc Death Knight
Req
6730
Lets not forget, that in previous patches/expac's with pvp gear and resil/power, the hp's of the pve player were less than the pvp'er. So they had no resil, no pvp power, and fewer hp's.

Now they have massive more hp, way more base stats on the gear, and the same resil, while the pvp power value is minimal.

It's just so simple I don't understand why more hasnt been mentioned in addressing it as I noted in length above.
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100 Human Warrior
11170
Great suggestion. I'll be sure to bring it up with the team :)

That said, we're doing a lot of retuning of how health works in comparison to incoming damage in Warlords, with the hope that we won't need (or can significantly lessen the effects of) things like Battle Fatigue or Base Resilience. If all goes well, there shouldn't be as nearly as substantial of a difference between PvE and PvP damage output.

Still, it's a great suggestion, and there will likely still be at least a small difference (due to PvP Power if nothing else), so I'll make sure to pass it on.


Just my opinion of course, but I really think these devs just don't get it.

If the idea was to make pvp gear less viable for pve, and also make pve geared players feel at least a bit competitive in pvp, one only needs to use a little simple logic based on what we've seen this expac and the horrific results. K

Knowing the pve geared players can flat demolish pvp geared players in wpvp, what is the true cause? Resilience of course. Yes, to a small degree one can say pvp power has value, but it's insanely small in comparison to the raw stats of pve gear with much higher ilvls.

A simple solution:

1. REDUCE BASE resilience substantially.
2. Bring back resilience on pvp gear.
3. KEEP ilvl differences! yes keep them to prevent pvp geared folks from pve raids.
4. Increase the value of pvp power.

Results:
1. Pve geared players will still have some base resil. Obviously this needs to be worked out in PTR.
2. PVE geared players will still have a plethora more hit points. But will take some more dmg via pvp poower and less resil.
3. Pve geared players gear hits equally decent but because the pvp player has resil, it's not nearly as hard hitting as today.
4. PVE players will feel they have a reasonable chance in wpvp, and pvp players will feel they have a chance vs pve gear folks in wpvp. As it stands now, pvp players are more apt to no longer engage in a wpvp 1v1 or 1 v 2 situation just because they see the pve player has 200k more hp and has the pvp'er obviously out geared.

Full 74% base resil (or whatever it is) was the worst move ever with the massive ilvl spread in pve/pvp gear.

It isn't hard to figure out. Just use some simple logic and an open mind.


problem with all this is that you are basing the changes on wpvp not controlled pvp. pve gear in arenas/bg's is crap and we walk all over em. you changes would make it harder for pvers to catch up in bg's.
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92 Orc Warlock
8495
01/13/2014 11:58 AMPosted by Sushytime
There SHOULD be a difference in damage output between pve/pvp gear. Pve gear should hit harder in pve, and pvp gear should reduce dmg more in pvp.


I think he means more along the lines of "Why can I Chaos Bolt for 1.5 million in PvE while PvP I can rarely go above 180k?" kinds of situations, which I think is a legit concern.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
16840
Great suggestion. I'll be sure to bring it up with the team :)

That said, we're doing a lot of retuning of how health works in comparison to incoming damage in Warlords, with the hope that we won't need (or can significantly lessen the effects of) things like Battle Fatigue or Base Resilience. If all goes well, there shouldn't be as nearly as substantial of a difference between PvE and PvP damage output.

Still, it's a great suggestion, and there will likely still be at least a small difference (due to PvP Power if nothing else), so I'll make sure to pass it on.


I wish every expansion has stats like The Burning Crusade. I don't know why I'm nostalgic for low numbers. Or maybe it just worked because so few people got enough gear for there to be wide spread balance issues.
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90 Orc Death Knight
Req
6730


Just my opinion of course, but I really think these devs just don't get it.

If the idea was to make pvp gear less viable for pve, and also make pve geared players feel at least a bit competitive in pvp, one only needs to use a little simple logic based on what we've seen this expac and the horrific results. K

Knowing the pve geared players can flat demolish pvp geared players in wpvp, what is the true cause? Resilience of course. Yes, to a small degree one can say pvp power has value, but it's insanely small in comparison to the raw stats of pve gear with much higher ilvls.

A simple solution:

1. REDUCE BASE resilience substantially.
2. Bring back resilience on pvp gear.
3. KEEP ilvl differences! yes keep them to prevent pvp geared folks from pve raids.
4. Increase the value of pvp power.

Results:
1. Pve geared players will still have some base resil. Obviously this needs to be worked out in PTR.
2. PVE geared players will still have a plethora more hit points. But will take some more dmg via pvp poower and less resil.
3. Pve geared players gear hits equally decent but because the pvp player has resil, it's not nearly as hard hitting as today.
4. PVE players will feel they have a reasonable chance in wpvp, and pvp players will feel they have a chance vs pve gear folks in wpvp. As it stands now, pvp players are more apt to no longer engage in a wpvp 1v1 or 1 v 2 situation just because they see the pve player has 200k more hp and has the pvp'er obviously out geared.

Full 74% base resil (or whatever it is) was the worst move ever with the massive ilvl spread in pve/pvp gear.

It isn't hard to figure out. Just use some simple logic and an open mind.


problem with all this is that you are basing the changes on wpvp not controlled pvp. pve gear in arenas/bg's is crap and we walk all over em. you changes would make it harder for pvers to catch up in bg's.


I call bs on that. You obviously didnt read my post. It doesnt matter if you're in bg, arena, or rbg. If the stats are done properly you dont have to force item squish in controlled pvp.

*Edit: Besides, most of those gearing up in bgs are gearing up from blues & greens. They are the ones that have a harder time. yes we walk all over them. get rid of item squish in controlled, apply my suggestions with balance, and pve players will fair decent, but obviously will fail if they don't understand pvp situations well. Gear won't be the major difference.
Edited by Sushytime on 1/13/2014 12:41 PM PST
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Community Manager
01/13/2014 12:10 PMPosted by Lokthen
There SHOULD be a difference in damage output between pve/pvp gear. Pve gear should hit harder in pve, and pvp gear should reduce dmg more in pvp.


I think he means more along the lines of "Why can I Chaos Bolt for 1.5 million in PvE while PvP I can rarely go above 180k?" kinds of situations, which I think is a legit concern.


Precisely.
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90 Undead Warlock
16185
If all goes well, there shouldn't be as nearly as substantial of a difference between PvE and PvP damage output.


That would be amazing. PvP damage has become so disheartening by comparison. I feel so weak =(
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88 Human Rogue
16050
I wish every expansion has stats like The Burning Crusade. I don't know why I'm nostalgic for low numbers. Or maybe it just worked because so few people got enough gear for there to be wide spread balance issues.


It wasn't the bc numbers that made it "work".
Edited by Whoknowz on 1/13/2014 1:29 PM PST
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91 Draenei Shaman
9350
We had a PVP dummy and you guys made him quit.
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90 Orc Death Knight
Req
6730
We had a PVP dummy and you guys made him quit.


Indeed.
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81 Pandaren Warrior
740
Like !
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90 Worgen Warlock
9705
This would be a good idea. There should be separate dummies for each class. There should also be separate ones for each spec where appropriate, such as the various tank specs and bear form.
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93 Tauren Druid
13960
I know that WoW was created as PvE game with PvP implemented down the road, but have you considered balancing classes around PvP completely and then tuning PvE content around that? I don't pvp much at all these days, but I would like to think that is something to consider.

I mean...when was the last time you heard an NPC complain about a nerf?
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