Removing *SOME* CC in WoD

1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Can we vote lore for president? Is that something we have the power to do?


If he keeps going on like this, he has my vote!
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
19570
01/09/2014 02:01 PMPosted by Ritã
My main is a Warlock and I use Shivarra, "sleep" does not share a DR with Fear, I do it all the time.


...wow, okay, your opinion doesn't count for anything anymore, because here it is in blue. http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/10195910192#5

Anyway, back on topic, I'd happily trade spamable Fear as part of a general overhaul of the melee vs caster dynamic. Under optimal circumstances, Fear is an offensive ability because it locks down someone while you kill their friend. Under less favorable condition when you're the one getting beat on, Fear is one of the few Warlock ability to escape pressure and try to get a non-instant cast off.

But that's the eternal balance dance, isn't it? If you give a class a small number of powerful tools, they can be OP when you can avoid their weaknesses. If you give a class a diversity of weaker abilities, you risk giving them so many that they have a tool for every situation and never run out. It's a delicate thing to balance somewhere in the middle.
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100 Blood Elf Monk
9030
01/09/2014 02:04 PMPosted by Avaricex
Lol, Leg Sweep, FoF, then what?


Sap on a 15 sec cd is amazing, you have a blanket silence as well.


Ok, I will list a monk's cc compared to a warrior.

Monk:
Fourth talent line
Fists of Fury
Paralysis
Disable
Spear Hand Strike
Disarm

Warrior:
Charge
Third Talent Line
Fourth Talent Line
Spell Reflect
Mass Spell Reflect
Stormbolt
Disarm
Pummel
Intimidating Shout
Hamstring

So please, tell me again how Monks have more cc than Warriors?
Edited by Ritã on 1/9/2014 2:11 PM PST
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90 Tauren Druid
13990
TYVM Lore for responding - it would have been very unfortunate for me to have to make a twitter account just to get feedback heard
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Hamstring


Mass Spell Reflect


Spell Reflect


Third Talent Line


Pummel


These aren't cc, hun.
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100 Night Elf Mage
15105
By the time they're done spamming Cyclone my teammate is dead, and same for fear and Poly.


Eh, casted CC definitely isn't the only issue. Playing with a ret paladin on my druid vs KFC, and my paladin generally has to bubble when they use CDs and I'm in something as small as a scatter/silence combo, with plenty CC left over. Seems a bit wrong to me that getting a paladin's most important (and basically only) defensive CD so quickly would be so easy. That's not to say every other class has similar issues, but retadins definitely have problems with surviving.

Some other stuff can be looked at. I remember being taken from 100% to 4% entirely by a rogue in his opener, without help, through barkskin glyph, and with a rejuv on myself.

Wanted to give you a HUGE thank you for being involved today with us. We really like getting blue posts. Thank you, Lore.


Yeah, thanks for posting. Makes me feel hopeful for season 16.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
19110
01/09/2014 01:57 PMPosted by Lore
Numbers are hard for us to discuss right now, really.


I don't think people are looking for numbers more that cd stacking and/or big burst cd's are removed/toned down a ton. As they are biggest causes of the issues no matter the numbers.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
19570
i think a lot of abilities just need more gate keepers. All to often this season players are able to unload a huge chunk of damage with very little setup.


I've been thinking of it as cold-start burst vs build-up burst. Some specs have to build up a secondary resource or collection of debuffs before they can let loose with their full burst. Other specs just have to hit a few buttons, or even a single All The Cooldowns button, and they can burst with no warning or preparation.

While the two types even out over a long PvE raid boss encounter, the cold-start types are significantly stronger in PvP situations.
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90 Undead Warlock
6350
Wanted to give you a HUGE thank you for being involved today with us. We really like getting blue posts. Thank you, Lore.
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100 Troll Druid
10000
One other thing I just mentioned on [url="https://twitter.com/devolore/status/421396636523184128"]Twitter[/url] that I'd like to bring up here as well -- we're also planning on having fewer DR categories (and thus, more shared DR's) in WoD. Again, still in development, anything can change, but that's what we're looking at.


Finally +1
How far are you toning down damage?

Is it burst you're toning or is it sustained, or a mix?


Numbers are hard for us to discuss right now, really. Between the item squish, base health/resil changes, spell/ability scaling changes, and probably some other stuff that doesn't come to mind right now, it's kind of an apples to oranges comparison. Once we're further along in development, we'll take a look at where all of that puts us, and adjust accordingly.

I and many other people would like to see the amount of burst damage and burst healing to be toned down. I think being able to set up burst windows is important, but an overall PvP match should be more of a struggle than a blow all CD's and hope to kill them hard enough. also with the amount of dps cooldowns nowadays people just stack them to set up astronomical bursts.
Edited by Chikatree on 1/9/2014 2:27 PM PST
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90 Human Warlock
7775
Wanted to give you a HUGE thank you for being involved today with us. We really like getting blue posts. Thank you, Lore.


Now move on over to the BG forums and show us some love :)
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01/09/2014 02:10 PMPosted by Ritã


Sap on a 15 sec cd is amazing, you have a blanket silence as well.


Ok, I will list a monk's cc compared to a warrior.

Monk:
Fourth talent line
Fists of Fury
Paralysis
Disable
Spear Hand Strike
Disarm

Warrior:
Charge
Third Talent Line
Fourth Talent Line
Spell Reflect
Mass Spell Reflect
Stormbolt
Disarm
Pummel
Intimidating Shout
Hamstring

So please, tell me again how Monks have more cc than Warriors?


WW Monks have more control and more powerful CC then Warriors. If you don't think so you are doing it wrong.
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100 Blood Elf Monk
9030
01/09/2014 02:11 PMPosted by Avaricex
Hamstring


Mass Spell Reflect


Spell Reflect


Third Talent Line


Pummel


These aren't cc, hun.


If you're counting from the blue post, Warriors still have seven cc's Monk's only five. That blanket silence also is only a silence if standing in front of the enemy.
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
If you're counting from the blue post, Warriors still have seven cc's Monk's only five. That blanket silence also is only a silence if standing in front of the enemy.


And you can't be viable with MSR anymore. Taking stuns makes warriors have far less damage, as well.

EDIT: You bring a lot to a team as well, that warriors don't.
Edited by Avaricex on 1/9/2014 2:27 PM PST
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100 Blood Elf Monk
9030
01/09/2014 02:26 PMPosted by Avaricex
If you're counting from the blue post, Warriors still have seven cc's Monk's only five. That blanket silence also is only a silence if standing in front of the enemy.


And you can't be viable with MSR anymore. Taking stuns makes warriors have far less damage, as well.

EDIT: You bring a lot to a team as well, that warriors don't.


Point is you said Warriors have less ccs than Monks when they don't. Also if WW Monks bring a lot more to the team, then why are there no WW Monks in the top? Warriors can squish Monks easily if they know what they're doing.
Edited by Ritã on 1/9/2014 2:31 PM PST
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1 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Point is you said Warriors have more ccs than Monks when they don't. Also if WW Monks bring a lot more to the team, then why are there no WW Monks in the top? Warriors can squish Monks easily if they know what they're doing.


in a 3v3 environment, Monks are just outclassed by classes with better defensives. You still bring a LOT to a team. You're nearly unpeelable, you have amazing self healing, some of the BEST mobility in the game.

The game isn't balanced around one class or one versus one.. And warriors don't have very good cc compared to monks. It's a factual statement. Sorry :/

EDIT: Class rep =/= balance or cc?

No, class rep isn't a good indicator of how well a class is doing.
Edited by Avaricex on 1/9/2014 2:34 PM PST
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100 Undead Priest
17830
Can we please stop all development and get an official press release on this gamebreaking issue which is on everyone's mind, whether ww monks or warriors have more cc. I haven't been able to sleep since Saturday.
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90 Undead Monk
12940
they didn't really add that much more cc this xpac... it just feels a million times worse because dispell has a cd now
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100 Blood Elf Monk
9030
01/09/2014 02:32 PMPosted by Avaricex
Point is you said Warriors have more ccs than Monks when they don't. Also if WW Monks bring a lot more to the team, then why are there no WW Monks in the top? Warriors can squish Monks easily if they know what they're doing.


in a 3v3 environment, Monks are just outclassed by classes with better defensives. You still bring a LOT to a team. You're nearly unpeelable, you have amazing self healing, some of the BEST mobility in the game.

The game isn't balanced around one class or one versus one.. And warriors don't have very good cc compared to monks. It's a factual statement. Sorry :/

EDIT: Class rep =/= balance or cc?

No, class rep isn't a good indicator of how well a class is doing.


Monks can easily be peeled off by Hunters and Mages. If a Monk can stick to a Hunter or Mage, then that Mage/Hunter clearly sucks. Feral Druids are a class that's unpeelable, they're basically immune to snares/roots, Monks aren't. Monks have 2 rolls, one fly kick, and if spec'ed (which I would hope) Tiger's lust. All 25_+ sec cd. Im not speaking of just 3s. Even in 2s and 5s you don't see a WW Monk in the top. Mobility I agree with.
Edited by Ritã on 1/9/2014 2:41 PM PST
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