Could we change dispels again?

I think the dispel changes of Cataclysm have done more harm to pvp than good. It has made the game more zergy both with cc spam and with playstyles; for example, druid comps don't have to worry as much about playing defensively because druids can now dispel magic effects. A lot of casters also don't have to worry as much about protecting their offensive pressure.

Additionally, this change has contributed to my feeling that dps specs / classes with dispels have been marginalized and healing specs too homogenized.

Problem 1: available dispels in 10 mans, and perhaps also 5 mans.

Possible solution: pve debuffs that offer mechanically-significant gameplay (like, say, Sinestra's debuff) are now simultaneously poison, disease, curse, and magic.

Thoughts?
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100 Troll Shaman
15220
I don't think you'll see this because it gives a really controlled encounter design. With the change coming of 20 man mythic, I see this as a standard rather than something for them to change.
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100 Tauren Druid
12230
I'm not really sure what you mean.

Also this forum must be dead.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
15580
To be honest I'm not sure what you're getting at here.
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100 Troll Shaman
13905
01/11/2014 03:08 PMPosted by Swampllama
Possible solution: pve debuffs that offer mechanically-significant gameplay (like, say, Sinestra's debuff) are now simultaneously poison, disease, curse, and magic.


I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve with this mechanic change. If a debuff is magic it can be dispelled by any healer in the group. I think a more suitable example you could have used would be something like Horridon in Throne of Thunder. Where a 10 man raid can be hindered if they aren't bringing the right classes to dispel the plethora of debuffs in the encounter. Of course this problem will be solved moving into WoD where Mythic content will assume you have at least one of every class and thus have multiple dispels to handle such situations.
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100 Night Elf Druid
9600
I don't get it. What do you hate about dispelling? That all healers can do magic? That there is a CD (I hate that, personally :P)?

What is it you are trying to resolve by making debuffs every type? What is that even? :<

The only fight I can think of this entire expansion where inability to dispel disease was an issue for me was Horridon.
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100 Tauren Druid
12230
I want to revert the dispel changes that came with cataclysm (i.e. that every healer can dispel magic).

If I remember correctly:

paladins had poisons and diseases

priests had magic and diseases

shamans had curses and poisons

druids had curses and poisons

I do not want all healers to continue to be able to dispel magic debuffs, but I do not want that to affect pve. If a pve debuff is simultaneously everything, any healer can dispel it and we can go back to wrath dispels.
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100 Draenei Priest
15705
I'm pretty sure that all healers could dispel magic in Cata. I know Druids could, although they needed to either talent or glyph for it (I forget which it was - I never played a Druid in cata).
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100 Blood Elf Priest
15580
01/28/2014 10:12 PMPosted by Mumpy
I'm pretty sure that all healers could dispel magic in Cata. I know Druids could, although they needed to either talent or glyph for it (I forget which it was - I never played a Druid in cata).


This. I'm fairly certain every healer has always been capable of dispelling magic. Its just most had to learn a talent to do so. I know for certain druids and paladins had to talent for it. Quite possibly shaman as well. Changing it so people did not have to do that was one of the best changes ever. They wanted people to feel free to talent how they like but the dispel talents were always far down on certain trees forcing talents.
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100 Tauren Druid
12230
I am aware that healers could dispel magic in Cataclysm. They could not before Cataclysm. What is the confusion?
Edited by Swampllama on 1/29/2014 3:13 PM PST
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100 Draenei Priest
15705
01/29/2014 03:12 PMPosted by Swampllama
What is the confusion?


The confusion is I don't understand what you want.

There are currently 3 types of debuff that can be dispelled by some healers, and 1 debuff that can be dispelled by all healers. You seem to be proposing that we have 4 types of debuff that can be dispelled by some healers, and 1 debuff that can be dispelled by all healers.

I just don't see how it would be functionally any different.
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100 Tauren Druid
12230
I want to go back to the dispels that we had in Wrath. In order to make that a non-issue for raiders, I want debuffs to be dispellable by any healer by making the debuff simultaneously magic, curse, poison, and disease.
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100 Tauren Druid
9610
01/27/2014 06:48 PMPosted by Swampllama

paladins had poisons and diseases

priests had magic and diseases

shamans had curses and poisons

druids had curses and poisons


First and foremost, this is precisely why it was changed. It balances PvE (majority of the game, sorry) encounters.
Secondly, it also balances PvP.
Third, you now have dampening.

01/29/2014 10:12 PMPosted by Swampllama
I want debuffs to be dispellable by any healer by making the debuff simultaneously magic, curse, poison, and disease.

This still hurts PvE by enabling other characters - non-healers - to perform significant dispells, thus allowing possible cheesing of fights. Say, Solo heal protectors, dps can dispell duty. Heroic Sha, Meh, EVERYONE can dispell! Why burden healers with GCD's of dispelling! Rotate all the dps, it's only 5 pride; Let's solo heal that too!
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100 Tauren Druid
12230
01/29/2014 10:17 PMPosted by Tonydanza
First and foremost, this is precisely why it was changed. It balances PvE (majority of the game, sorry) encounters.


I don't think my change imbalances pve; people aren't stacking balance druids and shadow priests, are they?

Secondly, it also balances PvP.


No. The healers were much better balanced in wrath than they have been since.

Third, you now have dampening.


Is this relevant?
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100 Human Paladin
17740
I have one word to say to the entirety of this forum post: ADJUST...we've all had to do it
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100 Blood Elf Priest
15580
I feel like this thread is a giant contradiction...

01/29/2014 10:12 PMPosted by Swampllama
I want to go back to the dispels that we had in Wrath. In order to make that a non-issue for raiders, I want debuffs to be dispellable by any healer by making the debuff simultaneously magic, curse, poison, and disease.


?????????

Also

01/30/2014 07:45 PMPosted by Swampllama
01/29/2014 10:17 PMPosted by Tonydanza
First and foremost, this is precisely why it was changed. It balances PvE (majority of the game, sorry) encounters.


I don't think my change imbalances pve; people aren't stacking balance druids and shadow priests, are they?

Secondly, it also balances PvP.


No. The healers were much better balanced in wrath than they have been since.

Third, you now have dampening.


Is this relevant?


Yes the changed made it so we didnt have to stack particular classes. Just as in pvp you would prefer certain healers for dispels for certain favorites of the month. I don't see how this makes sense. The only thing that comes to mind is you want non-healers to be able to dispel their wrath counter parts again.. Otherwise I have no idea. If healers were indeed much more balanced in wrath. Why? Don't simply say they were "much better" balanced. When most would agree they are balanced NOW.
Edited by Nametwenty on 1/31/2014 7:55 PM PST
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100 Tauren Druid
12230
01/31/2014 07:54 PMPosted by Nametwenty
?????????


I don't understand your confusion. Is English not your first language? I want to go back to the dispels that we had in Wrath, and to make sure that 10 man raiding doesn't get screwed over, I want healers to be able to dispel anything they need to be able to dispel while inside that raid or 5 man or whatever.

I think pretty much nobody who actually does pvp agrees that healers are on an equal footing right now. In Wrath, every healer had access to tier 1 comps and they all had distinct niches.
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100 Troll Shaman
13905
01/31/2014 08:10 PMPosted by Swampllama
I want healers to be able to dispel anything they need to be able to dispel while inside that raid or 5 man or whatever.


THIS IS HOW DISPELS CURRENTLY WORK

E: to clarify - any mechanic that needs to be dispelled can be dispelled by a healer. save Horridon - which required you to have everybody in your group cooperate to dispel the debuffs. Oh god. Team work. !@#$ that.
Edited by Duglawaha on 1/31/2014 8:26 PM PST
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100 Tauren Druid
12230
01/31/2014 08:24 PMPosted by Duglawaha
01/31/2014 08:10 PMPosted by Swampllama
I want healers to be able to dispel anything they need to be able to dispel while inside that raid or 5 man or whatever.


THIS IS HOW DISPELS CURRENTLY WORK


01/31/2014 08:10 PMPosted by Swampllama
I want to go back to the dispels that we had in Wrath, and to make sure that 10 man raiding doesn't get screwed over, I want healers to be able to dispel anything they need to be able to dispel while inside that raid or 5 man or whatever.
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90 Orc Shaman
12885
The way I understood it, the OP wants things to go back to Wrath's model of "all healers can dispel 2 out of A, B, C and D" instead of the current model of "EVERYONE dispels magic, + other 2", while making important PvE debuffs "multi-school" debuffs so you don't hate life because you couldn't find someone to dispel Diseases for LK.

I really don't see any point for this. CC spam of the magic kind is so broad these days that removing magic dispel as an universal healer dispel would only make some healing specs even less desirable while others become too desirable. Both the PvE and PvP systems evolved through Cata and MoP with magic dispel being the base of all healers; changing that back right now is unlikely to have good results.

Then again, if it is about going back to Wrath gameplay, I'm all for losing magic dispel if that means I can be OP dispeler being able to dispel Curses, Poisons, magic buffs via Purge, and /lol spam at DKs/Rogues with Cleansing Totem down.
Edited by Korghal on 1/31/2014 9:24 PM PST
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