Shamans and Mastery

100 Pandaren Shaman
6385
I hope this isn't something that has been posted about before but is there a point where Mastery for a Resto Shaman becomes unnecessary? I know that there really isn't a cap but at some point is Haste or Crit worth more? I have the haste soft cap of 12.5% that icy veins says is required and currently my mastery (with grace of air) is 9758 (72.79%). I'm just looking for more experienced opinions on whether to keep reforging and gemming for a strong mastery build or to mix in a bit more crit or haste.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
8785
To be honest, I never went for a strong mastery build. I always prioritized Crit and more recently Haste.

I would wait to pick up more haste until you can get to 7613 for the next Healing Rain breakpoint without loss of crit. But I would start going for more crit right now. I personally never got that high on mastery, my highest point was 68% during ToT when only mastery gear would drop for me, I reforged out of it all.

Also, as you pick up more crit, you'll find you can run with less spirit, thus freeing up more points you can put into crit and haste.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
There's no mastery breakpoints or anything; the value of mastery is completely linear. It's either better for you than Crit, or it's not better for you than Crit based on your raid comp and typical HP% levels. In most raid setups, mastery is significantly less valuable than any other stat.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
6385
See, in the reading I had done it claimed that crit was better for 25 man, or high number, raid groups while mastery was better for 10 man, or low number groups. Since several friends and I had planned on doing low number flex I was focusing on mastery. Is this true or does the
size of the group not really matter? The only real healing experience I've had is LFR and LFG and I really liked the clutch healing that mastery gave me there but I want to be ready and at least stat competent for flex. I have no prior raid or healing experience so I'm looking for any advice that might help. Thanks for what has been offered already! :)
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90 Human Priest
13005
The size doesn't matter. The only thing that matter is whether or not people are spending time at low health.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13835
The size doesn't matter. The only thing that matter is whether or not people are spending time at low health.


Lies!
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100 Troll Shaman
13905
I'm not really sure where you heard mastery is the best stat for 10 man or smaller flex groups. IMO mastery isn't really that bad of a stat to have and shouldn't be avoided at all costs. But it definitely shouldn't be stacked either. Crit and haste are just much stronger in the current state of the game. Crit allows you to reforge out of a ton of spirit and acts as a good regen tool as well as providing significant throughput. Haste allows you to get healing to the people that need it as fast as possible. The reason this is so important right now is there are so many mechanics in the current tier that require people to maintain a relatively high percentage of health for fear of instant death.

The current healing game I just described where the goal of a healer shifts from keeping people alive to keeping people topped off has a very negative impact on the strength of Deep Healing. The reason why mastery scales worse in 25 man is because there are just more healers and available cooldowns to keep people at high health values.
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100 Pandaren Shaman
6385
Alright. Thank you all for the advice. Did my flex today after reforging and it all worked out well. Will still check for a while in case anyone else has any other advice that might help me be a better healer all around. Have a good day!
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100 Troll Shaman
12375
When gearing for mastery you should only try to keep it above 50%. You don't need to keep it at 50%, but at that point you should really try and hit higher haste caps. With Rushing Streams, hiting the soft caps that give you additional ticks of HST is very important for throughput. After you get your prefered soft cap for haste, you should prioritize Critical Strike.

Spirit(7-9k)>mastery(50%)>haste(33.3% pref)>Crit

I don't have the 12.5% haste cap up ther since there is so much of it on gear it's not really needed in measuring stat weights.

Mp5 is so high now in SoO I normally reforge out of as much spirit I can. I put it into my haste until I hit the 33..29% haste soft cap with the spell haste buff, so roughly around 27.4%. That will put you a bove the haste cap but it can be a bit buggy depending on your latency, so its good to have a lil more.
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90 Troll Shaman
18930
When gearing for mastery you should only try to keep it above 50%. You don't need to keep it at 50%, but at that point you should really try and hit higher haste caps. With Rushing Streams, hiting the soft caps that give you additional ticks of HST is very important for throughput. After you get your prefered soft cap for haste, you should prioritize Critical Strike.

Spirit(7-9k)>mastery(50%)>haste(33.3% pref)>Crit



This advice is completely wrong. There is nothing special about 50% mastery and no reason you should be trying to gear to that. The value of mastery is a linear scale; 1% more mastery is worth the same when you have 30% mastery as it is when you have 80% mastery. In T14, Ask Mr. Robot or Noxxic or some other site had someone that had no idea what they were talking about start this "gear to 50% mastery" garbage that has been spread around since, but is entirely incorrect reasoning.

The only thing that matters in determining the value of mastery is the HP% levels the healing that you care the most about is hitting. It's either going to be better than other stats or worse than other stats; if it's better, you should just keep stacking it no matter how much you have. Likewise, if it's worse than Crit, you should get rid of as much as you can. It's also next to impossible to even get below 50% mastery even at 515-520 type ilvl.

As far as raid size and mastery, generally larger raids and more healers mean you have more raid cooldowns, more passive healing, and HP levels are more stabilized. However, that's going to vary based on the other healers you have (the more Disc Priests and to a lesser extent HPallies, the worse mastery becomes), and the more healers you are using relative to the raid size, the weaker mastery is (i.e. it's better for 2 healing 10 man than 3 healing). There is an addon you can run to determine your exact stat weights, but the general default advise without knowing that is, unless you are doing 10 man heroic or something, mastery is generally always the weakest stat. If in doubt, especially for LFR/flex/normal, I would default to running as little mastery as possible, because the damage likely isn't going to be there to heal enough in those difficulties to make it worthwhile.
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100 Troll Shaman
12375
When gearing for mastery you should only try to keep it above 50%. You don't need to keep it at 50%, but at that point you should really try and hit higher haste caps. With Rushing Streams, hiting the soft caps that give you additional ticks of HST is very important for throughput. After you get your prefered soft cap for haste, you should prioritize Critical Strike.

Spirit(7-9k)>mastery(50%)>haste(33.3% pref)>Crit
This advice is completely wrong. There is nothing special about 50% mastery and no reason you should be trying to gear to that. The value of mastery is a linear scale; 1% more mastery is worth the same when you have 30% mastery as it is when you have 80% mastery. In T14, Ask Mr. Robot or Noxxic or some other site had someone that had no idea what they were talking about start this "gear to 50% mastery" garbage that has been spread around since, but is entirely incorrect reasoning.

The only thing that matters in determining the value of mastery is the HP% levels the healing that you care the most about is hitting. It's either going to be better than other stats or worse than other stats; if it's better, you should just keep stacking it no matter how much you have. Likewise, if it's worse than Crit, you should get rid of as much as you can. It's also next to impossible to even get below 50% mastery even at 515-520 type ilvl.


My advice had nothing to do with how mastery scales. The 50% was just an example number that I am using to inform the OP how much mastery is necessary. 50% is not ment to be fact, that is simply where my mastery sits when im not gearing for it and reforging out of mastery, thus the "example number".

I said mastery doesn't need to be kept at 50% aswell. So like you said, "keep stacking it no matter how much you have". I was trying to state the importance in higher haste caps when it comes to throughput from Rushing Streams. And it is completely preference whether the OP wants the higher haste cap or not. He wanted to know if it was worth putting points into other stats and I'm saying yes.

The stat priority was my prefered stat priority, which was only being used as an example.
Edited by Patdycakes on 1/13/2014 11:41 AM PST
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100 Draenei Shaman
6480
Tiberria is basically right, there is absolutely nothing special about 50% Mastery, although there is some non-linear effect on all stats due to overhealing.

I co-wrote an addon to calculate (in real time) the amount that one point of each stat would increase my effective healing. Due to the health-level effect on Mastery, you can't do this in any practical way after the fact using logs (which don't tell you the health of the person you healed).

I've been using the addon since early in T15, and although it is missing a few updates for T16 trinkets, the results have been remarkably stable for me from ILevel 500-ish gear, up to where I am now at 572.

In the vast majority of fights I have done, Mastery is noticeably worse than Crit. Haste is a bit harder to make a general statement, since it is depends a lot on specific breakpoints. But as you hit the more significant breakpoints (HR, HST in T16) Haste is certainly competitive with and may be superior to Crit. In between breakpoints, Haste is comparable to Mastery.

As I say, the numbers are remarkably stable (these are for 10-man):

1200 Mastery ~ 800-900 Crit ~ 400-1200 Haste (depending on breakpoint) ~ +1% effective healing

Int and Spellpower are the only stats that showed a noticeable progression as I geared up from ToT LFR to SoO Heroic. As your Int/Spellpower go up, it takes more of them to add +1% effective healing. For ToT gear levels, the numbers were like 400 Int/500 SP = +1%. In my current gear, it is more like 550 Int/650 SP = +1%.

Sadly, there is so much Mastery and Spirit itemized on our SoO gear that I find it practically impossible not to reach very high levels of Mastery (if you reforge out of Spirit, which does not increase your throughput, you are stuck with all the Mastery). I avoid Mastery whenever and wherever I can, and I still have close to 75%...

My advice would be the following:

1) Get as much Spirit as you need, and no more. Depending on whether you have the legendary metagem, and whether you use Glyph of Totemic Recall effectively, this could vary widely. At least in 10-man raiding, you obviously want as little Spirit as necessary to be able to heal without OOM-ing.

2) Get Haste to highest Healing Rain or Healing Stream Totem breakpoint you can reach comfortably. These two abilities are such a huge fraction of our throughput in T16 that I think it's a no-brainer. You need to be slightly over HST breakpoints to ensure they work as they should.

3) After that, get as much Crit and as little Mastery as you can.

Finally, it's important to understand the numbers. While all the evidence I've collected indicates that Crit is certainly better than Mastery, you should not over-estimate the difference. The difference between, say, 3600 Mastery and 3600 Crit should only be around a 1-2% difference in effective healing. Many other factors like awareness, experience, reflexes and spell selection are almost certain to have a much larger impact.
Edited by Rheeah on 1/16/2014 11:28 PM PST
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100 Pandaren Shaman
6385
I did a lot more research and added what I learned from that to the advice from here and I can only say THANK YOU SOOOOOOO MUCH! After changing my gems and reforging pretty much everything our guild did our flex again and the difference was breathtaking. One of our guildies was using a worldoflogs addon and I nearly doubled my effective healing. I could feel the difference during the raid too. So again thank you all for the advice.
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