Divine Storm must proc H.Power or is useless

85 Blood Elf Paladin
11340
No one has even mentioned the fact that our cleave seal is USELESS and that entire talent in our tree to make SOR a cleave seal would have been an immediate pass if it wasn't for the fact that it also included Seals of Command in that talent.

Do people even realize that our cleave seal doesn't even have the ability to crit?

Couple that with

a) A weak DS that's only good for gigantic trash pulls (even then it doesn't do as much damage as it should)
b) A mana-intensive Consecration which you hardly ever use
c) An AOE ability that isn't an AOE ability at all (Holy Wrath)

Basically Ret went from being almost on par with Warriors and DKs for AOE damage, to now basically being useless in AOE situations.

Take for example Valkyrs on Lich King. It's a DPS increase to just stick on one Valk, keep on Seal of Truth, and not use DS instead of CS. Cleaves and whirlwind abilities are meant for situations where you need quick on demand AOE burst. We don't have a single ability that is useful in those types of situations.
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85 Human Paladin
9670
a) A weak DS that's only good for gigantic trash pulls (even then it doesn't do as much damage as it should)


Actually, it does 80% weapon damage on each target (with a hard limit, I am lead to believe), so it actually does decent dps given a large enough mob. Unfortunately, you will never, ever encounter that size of mob in Cata (at least if you want to live).

b) A mana-intensive Consecration which you hardly ever use


There is no situation in which a Ret will want to use Consecration, given its low dps/high mana cost. Consecration, like Divine Plea, should not even be on the toolbar.

I take that back. Consecration serves a purpose in the event of a bad tank. Anything to help pull a mob off the healer is a good thing.

c) An AOE ability that isn't an AOE ability at all (Holy Wrath)


It does what it's supposed to do. Its benefit is its stun ability.

As far as Divine Storm goes, Redcape at elitistjerks calculates that Divine Storm needs a whopping 6 mobs to be better than Crusader Strike. SIX!!! This is an insane amount.

If Divine Storm is to see any use, it needs serious reworking.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
11340
You can and should use consecration when you have the mana to do so. I use it at least once on most ICC fights, and typically only if I can guarantee the boss is going to be standing still the entire time.

As for Holy Wrath, it's stun is more problematic than useful imo. Blizzard made it part of the Ret rotation to cut down on downtime, due to the drop in Exo use and the drop of Cons from our rotation.

The issue though is that it does single target damage which is useful, but in an AOE fashion. I would take the AOE portion out, and make it so that you can glyph it to hit multiple targets and stun those targets.

You could have the tooltip be something like this:

"
10 yard Range
Sends a bolt of Holy Power at your target, causing X damage to X damage, and also stuns the target if undead or demon"

and then have the Glyph be

"Splits your Holy Wrath damage amongst all targets within 10 yards and now also stuns Elementals and Dragonkin"

This way, we could retain the use of Holy Wrath in our single target rotation without fear of breaking CC, and still have the option of adding some utility to it.

I've been playing Ret as my mainspec from my first talent point in this character, back when I made him in TBC. He's been my main since then, and I enjoyed Ret back then, and absolutely LOVED Ret in Wotlk, ICC ret being my favourite time to play this spec.

The changes to Ret now really feel like there's no direction. Holy Wrath is a confused ability, and I stand by my statement that it works like an AOE, but gives none of the benefits of an AOE except for the stun.

Take for example Lich King fight....in P1/P2, I pretty much don't use it at all since the inclusion of ghouls nerfs it's damage to Lich King, the stun on the ghouls is more trouble than the damage is worth, and I pretty much have to save it for Valk waves due to it's semi-long cooldown.

and DS's AOE cap makes it crappy on large packs too. This week on the Sindragosa whelp packs, I recorded an average 37-40k damage per use of DS on what must've been over 20 adds. If this is supposed to be the Ret version of Fan of Knives, it needs to proc seal damage on all hits of DS, just like FoK procs Poison damage on all it's hits.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5860
How about the chance for divine storm to proc a point of holy power is (#ofmobs)*25%
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
10745
How about the chance for divine storm to proc a point of holy power is (#ofmobs)*25%

I was thinking the same myself, although I was thinking more along the lines of 30%
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85 Human Paladin
0
Honestly, I'd be happy if Divine Purpose, with the change to DS in mind, were changed from its current state to a 50/100% chance of generating holy power on judgement or DS cast. That would help put judgement back on the priority list as something other than a JotP/JotJ maintenance tool, and allow holy power generation while DS'ing. Not to mention make us less RNG dependent, and eliminate the somewhat silly situation of generating holy power off a holy power dump.
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90 Human Paladin
11230
b) A mana-intensive Consecration which you hardly ever use


You know that silly little gap you have in your rotation every once in a while? Yea, thats a perfect place to use conso. Any sane paladin who wants to maximize his dps will absolutely drop half his mana (thats so easy to gain back anyway) on casting a spell that has a 3 second CD, because youll gain that mana back within those 30 seconds.

c) An AOE ability that isn't an AOE ability at all (Holy Wrath)



as far as Holy Wrath goes, it doesnt REALLY do aoe damage since the damage is split between each mob, so the more mobs you have, the less damage each one takes, thus making it a complete failure in terms of "aoe damage"

DS needs to grant Holy Power. End of Story
Edited by Swordianzero on 11/30/2010 7:22 AM PST
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85 Tauren Paladin
6920
Divine Storm at the moment is pretty nice, since 2pc tier 10 still resets the cooldown contrary to popular belief.

Of course now that I said it Blizzard will fix it, but Cata comes in just over a week and then T10 doesn't matter.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
11340
Why are people quoting what I'm saying and trying to refute it lol?

I know no sane ret paladin is going to work cons into their rotation and would only use it sparingly when you have the means to refund alot of mana (divine plea), that's why I said

"a Consecration that you hardly ever use"

and I know Holy Wrath isn't an AOE ability, that's why I said "an AOE ability that's not an AOE ability at all" because it's giving you the trouble/benefit of an AOE ability, without giving you the damage of a true AOE ability.

So....I don't know what a bunch of Paladins are trying to prove by quoting what I'm saying and basically agreeing with me, but wording it in a way that would imply that I'm somehow wrong.

Our AOE sucks. That would be fine if the emphasis on AOE was lessened in Cataclysm, but Warriors, DKs, all Casters, still have fine AOE abilities.

I still contend that Holy Wrath should be a single target ability with a glyph to make it go in all directions.
Edited by Awyer on 11/27/2010 12:13 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
12260
i actually doubt that you'll be chain-pulling heroics the way we've been doing it in wrath, if only because the trash in five-mans is not the 'group up and melee the tank until we die' sort of trash - most of the trash pulls i've seen have one or two abilities that can literally kill someone in seconds, or instantly if they don't move.

also, considering that blizzard has basically admitted that combat rating inflation this expansion was a terrible mistake on their part, i doubt we'll see the same meteoric rise in power between tiers that we saw this expansion.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10375
Divine Storm is awesome now :D It gave me even MORE extra Talent points that I don't know where to put.

Also, yes. Divine Storm has 1 chance to proc a Holy Power charge each cast. Not a charge per target.

I found one good use for Divine Storm though. The end of Stratholme with all those mini ghouls come out at you? Yep, it kills them ALL now :D
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85 Human Paladin
3990
Nice to have Divine Storm back, but if it is going to share a cooldown with Crusader Strike, it MUST proc a Holy Power or it becomes a near useless ability, requiring 4-5 mobs before it stops being a DPS loss. And as has been stated oh-so-many times, Cata is not meant for large mobs.

I'd almost rather have it back to using Holy Power. At least then it got used. Now Divine Storm is almost as useless as Divine Plea.

On a related note, any chance of getting the old sound effect back for Divine Storm. This new, environmentally-friendly quiet sound effect is wimpy.


In ret talents you can make it so divine storm has a 40% chance to generate holy power btw.
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80 Human Paladin
8065
Everybody please quit complaining that OH NOES MY AOE IS GONE. CATA is not about AoE. We are going back to CC, and actualy pulling instances correctly. DS is there for massive packs that die fast, not for trash pulls. You are not going to be aoeing like you do in Wrath. Well, youmay be, but you'll also be dieing like you did in TBC and Vanilla. No matter how much all the OH NO MY CLASS IS BROKE people want to think, Wrath=/////////= Cata, even if you want it to.
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85 Human Paladin
9670
Everybody please quit complaining that OH NOES MY AOE IS GONE. CATA is not about AoE. We are going back to CC, and actualy pulling instances correctly. DS is there for massive packs that die fast, not for trash pulls.


DS is a signature move that Blizz specifically stated they want to be used.

It will not be used in its current state.
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85 Human Paladin
4630
it can be used! it makes a pretty light show when you are jumping around dalaran!
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24 Dwarf Shaman
200
What makes Divine Storm even worse, is the fact that you need to spec into it
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10015


Everybody please quit complaining that OH NOES MY AOE IS GONE. CATA is not about AoE. We are going back to CC, and actualy pulling instances correctly. DS is there for massive packs that die fast, not for trash pulls.


DS is a signature move that Blizz specifically stated they want to be used.

It will not be used in its current state.


Exactly. Their expressed purpose was to make it more popular because the 4.01 version wasn't getting used. They made it even worse, instead. This was clearly not what they intended, so we can expect to see more changes.

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