Feral versus rogue stealth MASSIVE difference

87 Undead Rogue
0
I see them slightly before my macro targets them, but I have no idea how far away they can see me.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
15685
Putting this back up now that the devs are at work!
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100 Orc Death Knight
13955
Do you actually see them though or are you just mashing your sap macro?


Coming from a 4year feral (apparently I retired him just before they came massively op), whoever decided that rogues needed to be able to sap druids should be fired. then tickled until they cry.
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85 Tauren Druid
6190
i hope this gets fixed
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100 Undead Warrior
5910
Rogue stealth is broken. It needs to be brought to the level of Ferals.

The idea of Rogues having greater stealth then ferals is another topic.

Moo


Agree with this.
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100 Night Elf Druid
18305
I've been reading the various threads on this subject and here is what I see.
Base Stealth, pre patch is 400 (Level*5 at 80). Subtlety rogues and feral druids get +15 via talents. Bumping stealth to 415. Post patch, the +15 for rogues is "baked in" and druids still have to spec into it. GC has confirmed that the issue has been looked at and that stealth levels are as intended.

People have tested the issue and evidence has shown that feral druids can spot rogues much sooner than rogues.

According to WoWWiki.com, there are two things that modify Stealth. Subtlety modifiers such as Feral Instinct and Sneaking Potion add to the Stealth level. Detection modifiers such Heightened Senses and Deathblow X11 Goggles increase the players detection, which negates some the opponents Stealth level.

It seems to me that druids got a boost to their detection which is allowing them to spot rogues sooner. The devs will need to look into this and decide if it's working as intended.

TL;DNR: Stealth is fine. Let's discuss detection levels.


except I can barely see them at all even when we're just testing and not actually trying to open on each other

This could still be a detection issue in that rogue detection has been gimped somehow. All I'm saying is that if the Stealth numbers are correct, the discrepancy must be caused by detection numbers/levels. Either Druids got a buff or Rogues got a nerf. Either way, something is out of balance.


If I had to guess, Blizzard probably created new spells for everything in the new talent trees even if their name and purpose didn't change. This could be a lingering bug of druids still benefiting from the pre-4.0 Feral Instinct. There is precedent of a similar case happening in the transition from BC to WotLK talent trees; for a short time paladins were still gaining +hit from talent that had been removed in 3.0.

I suppose the way to check would be to try with 2 freshly made characters, but I'm not invested enough in the issue to bother.
Edited by Resonance on 11/29/2010 11:18 AM PST
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85 Orc Rogue
5935
Hey OP, I can't see the druid in your second SS. You've got a shaman targeted and it looks like a priest is running by. And I can see you at center screen stealthed. You sure that's the right SS?

And why is this in the damage dealing forum?
Edited by Badhilist on 12/2/2010 11:43 PM PST
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85 Night Elf Rogue
5940
bad quality

Hey OP, I can't see the druid in your second SS. You've got a shaman targeted and it looks like a priest is running by. And I can see you at center screen stealthed. You sure that's the right SS?

And why is this in the damage dealing forum?


not sure about the screen shot, but try it out for yourself if youre skeptical. i tried it and got the same results. ferals can see me way far out from where i can see them.

im guessing its in the DD forums because there isnt a general PvP forum anymore (which btw is dumb as hell). a lot of the topics in here relate to PvP balance issues.

basically, damage dealing is the new PvP forum
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85 Orc Rogue
5935
try it out for yourself if youre skeptical


Oh I'm not skeptical at all, I've had my fair share of experiences, getting jumped out of stealth by ferals. I was just wanting to see hard evidence to make myself feel better, haha.

basically, damage dealing is the new PvP forum


word

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90 Night Elf Rogue
15685
Hey OP, I can't see the druid in your second SS.


Yes, it is correct. The shaman was just targetted. The cat druid is visible on the manhole.

This topic is fully relevant to the damage dealing forums. Stealth doesn't have its own forum, and if it did, the devs would ignore it.

Essentially what I did a few days ago is slowly approach a feral and he saw me first. Then he did the same thing. In both cases, the distances were about the same that he saw me at. I have to be FRIGHTENINGLY close to see him.

He's feral now and was prepatch. We're both night elves. I'll have to check again because it's a few days old so of course a zillion hotfixes have gone in.
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83 Blood Elf Paladin
2630
Lets put this in perspective.

Feral Damage > Rogue Damage
Feral Mobility > Rogue Mobility
Feral Survivalability > Rogue Survivalability
Feral Stealth > Rogue Stealth

I am SURE "smoke bomb" will not even this out. Ferals are better rogues, than rogues and they will be the defacto partners over rogues. Even warriors do everything better than rogues, and neither (feral/warrior) are as cooldown dependent or junk filler dependent.


Lets not forget pounce and main arent on the same DR's and main is only a 10 second cooldown.....they literally stun twice as much as rogues.

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85 Orc Rogue
10440
Lets put this in perspective.

Feral Damage > Rogue Damage
Feral Mobility > Rogue Mobility
Feral Survivalability > Rogue Survivalability
Feral Stealth > Rogue Stealth

I am SURE "smoke bomb" will not even this out. Ferals are better rogues, than rogues and they will be the defacto partners over rogues. Even warriors do everything better than rogues, and neither (feral/warrior) are as cooldown dependent or junk filler dependent.



i would agree with the second half of your post if druids didnt look so dumb in their tier gear. then again trolls look amazing in everything.
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80 Draenei Shaman
2755
Rogue stealth is broken. It needs to be brought to the level of Ferals.

The idea of Rogues having greater stealth then ferals is another topic.

Moo


Would seem better to lower feral stealth, should be SOME possibility that you can be seen.
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