Is Colossus Smash balanced?

85 Human Warrior
BiS
8570
I honestly don't see this ability getting changed too much.

While it it does sway the damage out put on heavily armored targets such as paladins and shamans while up, it's not as much say against a Rogue, Mage, or Priest. It will be just ArP, good against classes with higher armor, but lower armored classes are better just go straight strength.

I do foresee it getting a nerf to maybe something around 60-75% Armor Reduction, and Sudden Death decreasing the chance to proc as often (Like say once every 12 Seconds can Sudden Death Proc or something).

Overall you do have to realize this is an ability that Blizzard has already stated they enjoyed and want in the game. Not to mention It's one of the few abilities without scaling other abilities to ridiculous rates that will keep Arms PVE viable.

Also just a question, Why is it ok for Ele Shamans, and other casters to have huge crits but its not ok for melee? Especially when they're using a single slow weapon?
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85 Human Warrior
BiS
8570
CS is a 50% damage bonus vs cloth and leather, 66% bonus vs priests/hunters/ench, 100% bonus vs 2 hand plate and 150% vs paladins/shielded shamans.

They could just make Csmash 50% arpen, but give warriors 35% base damage to compensate.


So completely revet the nerf we just got because we were too good at 85? Sorry doesn't work that way.
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85 Human Warrior
BiS
8570
Warriors could be balanced around being good all-round, like we were at 80 pre-nerf(without relying on colossus crutch).

Or we could do insane damage with it up and be completely gimped over half the time, and average out the same.

Gee I wonder what's more fun.


Honestly I like the ability, and it will show the good warriors from the bad warriors in both PVP and PVE once its balanced correctly, assuming blizzard thinks it needs changing.
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85 Orc Warrior
7585
I lol'd irl at this post. I honestly did. LOL.
Fury is fine at 85, and it's not OP. We are completely gimped and nerfed right now, and at 85 it'll be balanced. I would know. I was in the Beta.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
12965
Attacks going through armor? It's like it's magic damage or something.
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85 Dwarf Shaman
3445
Attacks going through armor? It's like it's magic damage or something.


It's great that warrior damage is already extremely high when factoring in armor then, isn't it?
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85 Goblin Rogue
5480
I don't think colossus smash should stay 100%. That defeats the purpose of armor. The subtlety rogue version of colossus smash, expose weakness, only reduces armor by 50% and has a lot less uptime (only procs for 10 seconds when a rogue opens on you from stealth). And subtlety rogues don't do anywhere near the damage warriors do.

I think it should be nerfed and warriors buffed in other areas if that makes them too weak in pve.
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85 Human Warrior
BiS
8570
I don't think colossus smash should stay 100%. That defeats the purpose of armor. The subtlety rogue version of colossus smash, expose weakness, only reduces armor by 50% and has a lot less uptime (only procs for 10 seconds when a rogue opens on you from stealth). And subtlety rogues don't do anywhere near the damage warriors do.

I think it should be nerfed and warriors buffed in other areas if that makes them too weak in pve.


The reason because of that is that rogues have poisons which already bypass armor. Warriors are the only class in the game with out way to significantly bypass armor.

This ability would be an issue, if everyone and there little brother already wasn't going, "Armor?! What's that?!"

Attacks going through armor? It's like it's magic damage or something.


It's great that warrior damage is already extremely high when factoring in armor then, isn't it?


It's a good thing warriors just got nerfed. Let's look over them again!

-Overpower, Damage lowered from 150% Weapon Damage to 125% Weapon Damage
-Heroic Strike Damage reduced by 17%
-Mortal Strike, Damage lowered from 150% Weapon Damage to 125% Weapon Damage
-Slam, Damage lowered to 125% Weapon Damage from 150% Weapon Damage
-Rend, Damage lowered by 17%, and percent of weapon damage per tick lowered to 25%, from 30%.
-Strikes of Opportunity lowered to 100% Weapon Damage down from 150% Weapon Damage

Every ability from the Arms Tree got a nerf, and you're still calling for nerfs?
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85 Goblin Rogue
5480
I don't think colossus smash should stay 100%. That defeats the purpose of armor. The subtlety rogue version of colossus smash, expose weakness, only reduces armor by 50% and has a lot less uptime (only procs for 10 seconds when a rogue opens on you from stealth). And subtlety rogues don't do anywhere near the damage warriors do.

I think it should be nerfed and warriors buffed in other areas if that makes them too weak in pve.


The reason because of that is that rogues have poisons which already bypass armor. Warriors are the only class in the game with out way to significantly bypass armor.


A subtlety rogue does 10% of its dps with wound poison, and does probly 3/4 of the dps of a warrior here in 4.0.3. Once they get colossus smash, I'm guessing sub rogues will do half the dps of warriors.

I'm talking from a pvp perspective. 100% armor ignore is not balanced, and it defeats the purpose of having armor at all. Nerf it, and if warriors need other buffs to be competitive in pve give it to em.
Edited by Theculling on 11/29/2010 6:34 PM PST
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85 Goblin Rogue
5480
Casters hit through armor all the time in fact they have always hit through armor. Yet it's okay for them? GC stated they wanted to give warriors a attack that gets around armor because every other attack they have is effected by armor.


Every other classes in the game has abilities that hit through armor yet as soon as a warrior gets one it should be removed ?


EDIT: This basically turns warriors attacks into caster attacks for a short while.


It definitely shouldn't be removed, warriors need it. The problem is that it's 100% armor ignore. It needs to be lower than that, or else you could get into a situation where warriors do garbage damage (like not even worth mentioning) without it, then become gods when it's up.
Edited by Theculling on 11/29/2010 6:50 PM PST
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
10735
Warriors could be balanced around being good all-round, like we were at 80 pre-nerf(without relying on colossus crutch).

Or we could do insane damage with it up and be completely gimped over half the time, and average out the same.

Gee I wonder what's more fun.


Honestly I like the ability, and it will show the good warriors from the bad warriors in both PVP and PVE once its balanced correctly, assuming blizzard thinks it needs changing.


How?
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85 Human Warrior
BiS
8570

I'm talking from a pvp perspective. 100% armor ignore is not balanced, and it defeats the purpose of having armor at all. Nerf it, and if warriors need other buffs to be competitive in pve give it to em.


Every other ability defeats the purpose of armor, heck every other class does. You can't use armor as a valid excuse for abilities, it hasn't been a valid excuse for anyone for a significantly long time.

I've already said I wouldn't be surprised if the ability got reduced to something around 60-75% armor reduction, but anything more is out of the question without reworking the abilities and changes in in cataclysm.

On another note it sounds like you have beef with Subtlety not being good enough as opposed to your thoughts on CS. And I agree the spec does still need some love, its always been a spec that needed love.

Also Looking at some sub rogues on Saurfang Poisons do only make up about 16-17% of damage, but combined with bleeds which make up about another 10% of a rogue's damage, thats about 26-27% of a Rogue's damage is ignored.

Assuming you're sitting there a Fury warrior has a 30% uptime Colossal Smash in PVE. Arms has higher and reported from 40-50% uptime. So with sutbley talent that allows them to ignore Armor, Bleeds, and Poisons it sounds like you're ignoring the same amount of armor as warriors. What's the problem here again?

Edit: Also the Sub Rogue's procs off multiple abilities, although only from stealth, but also happens at least once every minute with Shadowstep, and Once every two minutes with Vanish.
Edited by Bladeknight on 11/29/2010 7:04 PM PST
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85 Goblin Rogue
5480
Casters hit through armor all the time in fact they have always hit through armor. Yet it's okay for them? GC stated they wanted to give warriors a attack that gets around armor because every other attack they have is effected by armor.


Every other classes in the game has abilities that hit through armor yet as soon as a warrior gets one it should be removed ?


EDIT: This basically turns warriors attacks into caster attacks for a short while.


It definitely shouldn't be removed, warriors need it. The problem is that it's 100% armor ignore. It needs to be lower than that, or else you could get into a situation where warriors do garbage damage (like not even worth mentioning) without it, then become gods when it's up.



But it's okay for rogues to ignore 50% less armor as Sub spec? Hell assassinations new niche is that it ignores more armor than any other melee class in the game even more than warriors. It's done differently via poisons but still bypasses more armor.


I don't understand the argument here? Warriors finally get a attack that allows them to bypass a little armor like all other classes have been doing forever and now everyone wants it nerfed or removed?


What don't you understand? I think CS should be the same as the rogue one, 50% armor ignore. CS will still be better because it has higher uptime.
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85 Human Warrior
BiS
8570

What don't you understand? I think CS should be the same as the rogue one, 50% armor ignore. CS will still be better because it has higher uptime.


Ok I'll take my significantly increased bleed damage in PVP, and Poisons as well.
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