@85 DPS on EJ 'spreadsheets'

- World of Warcraft
90 Human Mage
10015
I'll probably have to wait for the next build(unless they made it easy for a newbie to throw stuff in, or with a gui. Haven't used simcraft and/or c++ before), but i'm still curious to dig through it. If it's an actual sim or formulation, it's probably just borrowing the code/scripting from Mew, which makes alot more sense than trying to port them into some kind of spreadsheet.


AFAIK, SimulationCraft was built from scratch (originally by Dedmonwakeen, though there's now a fair-sized team of contributors), and is not based on any other code. It's not a new project, it's been around for quite a while.

There is a gui, but if you haven't built from source before, you're better off waiting for the next binary releases (the binaries do include the GUI, though you can always build from source and run from the CLI if you prefer).
Reply Quote
80 Troll Rogue
9245
I have a hard time seeing enhance place so well, but that might be unleashed elements.

I think they should really try to tune everyone to around frost mage / ret level dps. Everyone over 20k is way too strong right now in pvp considering how weak heals are.
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Paladin
13855
I wouldn't ask for much in the way of PvE balance until a good deal of first tier raiding has played out on live.


This, there are going to be bugs all over the place, tweaks to rotations and stat priorities and at least one spec is going to utterly blow up the meters when one of the ten million players on live notices something the few thousands of players on beta missed and works out a rotation that blizzard was not anticipating.
Reply Quote
80 Draenei Shaman
5220
If it's an actual sim or formulation, it's probably just borrowing the code/scripting from Mew, which makes alot more sense than trying to port them into some kind of spreadsheet.


None of the code/scripting is from Mew, SimC was written long before Mew came around. Mew is a useful tool as it does things that SimC does not and it allows us to look at Feral from a different perspective, allowing us to see if what we're doing is correct in our implementation and vice versus, the same goes for all the other tools out there. "Competition" among tools, if you want to call it that, is good for everyone as it creates better tools for everyone.
Reply Quote
84 Night Elf Druid
5770
If it's an actual sim or formulation, it's probably just borrowing the code/scripting from Mew, which makes alot more sense than trying to port them into some kind of spreadsheet.


None of the code/scripting is from Mew, SimC was written long before Mew came around. Mew is a useful tool as it does things that SimC does not and it allows us to look at Feral from a different perspective, allowing us to see if what we're doing is correct in our implementation and vice versus, the same goes for all the other tools out there. "Competition" among tools, if you want to call it that, is good for everyone as it creates better tools for everyone.



Agreed, competition is better for all of us. Yeah, i know simcraft came before, but i was assuming that the priorities/rotation what have you was going to get ported from Mew,(which was a dumb assumption, but that's what i get for not keeping up on EJ, and not thinking that question through :P. Not a fan of it, but I do tend to miss things not reading it). There was some pretty wierd quirks in Mew's formulation, but the sim was relatively well behaved (from the casual eye i've kept on it). Either way, Yawning/Tangedyn and company have probably already stumbled across it, if not helped work on it (or vice versa for whoever was working on the SimC version). I mostly assumed that because of the "spreadsheet" rumor, since i hadn't heard of one that incorporated feral.
Edited by Tyrazsun on 11/30/2010 7:23 PM PST
Reply Quote
80 Draenei Shaman
5220
Either way, Yawning/Tangedyn and company have probably already stumbled across it, if not helped work on it (or vice versa for whoever was working on the SimC version).

I haven't helped Mew and I did the Feral revamp. Their action list, which they did base off SimC which is cool, is probably a lot better then our default, as that hasn't been updated yet, so I may use theirs to improve ours.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
11885
Numbers are bugged, using wrong gear, and non optimised rotations.

Example; http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t48311-simulationcraft_warlocks_4_0_3a_numbers_80_85_a/

The warlock dps numbers have been updated, and are in fact higher than your listed numbers.

These numbers mean nothing with context, without context they mean even less except in the hands of the ignorant (read: WoW forums)
Reply Quote
1 Orc Shaman
0
The problem im seeing with this is if things like Feral and all Rogue specs, which are all horrid at target switching are doing that low on a sit there and DPS fight, then how bad are they going to do on fights where add switching is needed? Ret is possibly in the same boat but I havent kept up on them lately, if SoT stacks will still hold them back in add switching or not.


Numbers are bugged, using wrong gear, and non optimised rotations.

Example; http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t48311-simulationcraft_warlocks_4_0_3a_numbers_80_85_a/

The warlock dps numbers have been updated, and are in fact higher than your listed numbers.

These numbers mean nothing with context, without context they mean even less except in the hands of the ignorant (read: WoW forums)


Glad to see all 3 warlock specs are still competitive with each other. Well I guess all 3 rogue specs are too lol.
Edited by Flexxconexx on 11/30/2010 8:13 PM PST
Reply Quote
80 Draenei Shaman
5220
The problem im seeing with this is if things like Feral and all Rogue specs, which are all horrid at target switching are doing that low on a sit there and DPS fight, then how bad are they going to do on fights where add switching is needed?


Read more than two posts in the thread and you'll see that rogues have been updated to around 24k for both Assassination and Combat. Feral's action could also use some tweaking.
Reply Quote
90 Human Warlock
11885

Numbers are bugged, using wrong gear, and non optimised rotations.

Example; http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t48311-simulationcraft_warlocks_4_0_3a_numbers_80_85_a/

The warlock dps numbers have been updated, and are in fact higher than your listed numbers.

These numbers mean nothing with context, without context they mean even less except in the hands of the ignorant (read: WoW forums)


Glad to see all 3 warlock specs are still competitive with each other. Well I guess all 3 rogue specs are too lol.


You completely missed my point. /clap
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
VoS
12105
According to this, ret does less dps at 85 in 359 than at 80 in 277. Neat
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Rogue
10600
According to this, ret does less dps at 85 in 359 than at 80 in 277. Neat


Maybe it's because your combat ratings wont be super inflated!

Though it's probably because the sheet is wrong.
Reply Quote
85 Troll Priest
13100
Thanks for the great post Yawning! We'll take a look at these things and fix the bugs.
This is one of the types of feedback we're especially interested in (for those who understand coding). We're also interested in feedback from non-coders who notice things like buffs or procs having obviously uptimes etc. Or obviously wrong crit rates or abilities being used far too often or not often enough or the action lists being able to be improved etc.

Reply Quote
85 Tauren Druid
3280
A spreadsheet works through formulation. It doesn't (virtually) cast 100,000 fireballs and count how many crit, how many miss, and how many hit. It multiplies 100,000 by the hit rate, the crit rate, and the miss rate, and comes up with an average value for the three results.

They are used for the same purpose, they take similar inputs and produce similar outputs, but the way the function under the hood is completely different.

That is why we spell and pronounce the two words differently.
Not necessarily. There have been a few simulators implemented in spreadsheet form, Mavanas's rogue simulator for example ( http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t51449-rogue_dps_simulation_spreadsheet/ ). So it's not really safe to say that all spreadsheets use formulation, just like you can't say that all independent programs with a GUI actually run simulations.
Reply Quote
90 Undead Warlock
0
4.Warlock (aff) - 23927dps

5.DK (unholy) - 23674dps

6.Druid (balance) - 23322dps

7.Mage (fire) - 23164dps

8.Warlock (destro) - 23120dps


So close they might as well be the same.
Reply Quote
85 Troll Priest
13100
Yawning: I've gone through your list of issues with SimulationCraft's feral stuff and fixed all of those that did have a problem (which was most other than a couple of the GCD things).

I've also updated our Feral action lists to match the ones in Mew (and Glyphs). We saw a roughly 200dps gain from the action changes and a further gain from the Glyph change.

The biggest bump however was probably switching it to use Tolvir Potion instead of Speed Potion.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
13230
Like others have said. Don't take this as law. Not only are some classes not finished, but others cannot realistically reach the highest sim.

Even the top shadow priests, for example, end up clipping anywhere from 10-25% of their mind flays. Ele will actually have to move and suffer dps wise. ETC.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]