Two healing H ICC 10 Saurfang

90 Worgen Druid
6550
Hiya, I need advise on how to two heal H ICC 10 Saurfang as a resto druid with a resto shaman. On the best attempt we got him to around 5-8% before a mark died. As the fight nears the end 3 marks are up taking massive ammounts of damage along with the tank, but even when I save Tree of Life here for spamming HoTs and instant regrowths, it's not enough to keep the marks alive. My last saving grace is tranquility, which works amazingly, but once it ends all the marks are now HoT less and I don't have a snowballs chance of keeping them all from dieing. One dead mark is an automatic wipe. I can't imagine trying to keep up without the 30% buff. I thinkt he shaman I was healing with was having mana problems near the end which wasn't helping -- perhaps I'll have to throw him some glyphed innervates -- but I don't think it was what was keeping us from finishing the fight.

So do any other druids heal this fight with a shaman that could give me some advice? I'm beginning to think my group will need an extra healer or that shamans and druids don't play nice when two healing.

Edit: I know it's not very important with cata around the corner, but it still has me concerned that I'm doing something wrong that's preventing the group from progressing. I was generally pulling around 6-7k HPS (the healing only got intense at the end) with the shaman at around 6k HPS by the end of the fight, is that too low to expect to be able to down it with just me and a shaman?
Edited by Stratis on 11/30/2010 10:19 PM PST
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85 Tauren Druid
10670
The third mark is your problem. DPS is slacking, and needs to pick it up.

It sounds like you're doing well, but just getting overwhelmed, and that's how the fight is designed.
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
On our best attempt the lowest dps was 7500 with the highest being 11100. Is that too low with 6 dps or is it likely that there was unneccessary extra rune power causing faster marks?
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55 Undead Death Knight
100
That's pretty high dps for a 10man. You guys probably aren't handling the blood power properly.

Tips:
1) Tell your tanks to stop slacking around, taunt as SOON as the other tank gets the debuff, stop messing around.
2) Ranged and healers have to spread out properly so they aren't hitting each other with the Blood debuff, and if you have pallies, BoP the ranged/healers that get these debuffs, it really helps with blood power.
3) Make sure no one is getting melee'd by the adds, tell your tanks to make sure to hold back on all AoE while they are up, and your melee as well. Your range need to properly kill them, if you don't have enough range, tell the melee to stun and and help the adds.

With that kind of dps you shouldn't even be getting 2 marks, if you handle the blood power properly. Getting a 3rd healer would make problems worse, it would make dps slower and since you're already handling the blood power terribly, expect 4-5marks. 2 heal it, handle blood power well, and you'll be fine.


^ This.

I 2 healed h saurfang today with myself on my disc priest and a resto druid. It was an alt run and the dps ranged from 4.5k to 9k so it was far below what you have. We have our boomkin root a beast and shadowpriest mindflaying the other while dps focus it down and a typhoon just incase.

Everything I'd want to say was said by this guy. With that dps it is the above problems causing him to put out too many marks and you shouldnt be expected to easily heal through that. You say you were both over 6k hps, if I recall I was 7k and the druid was 5k so your heals arent the problem, the other raid members are
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90 Draenei Shaman
8150
Shaman should be Chaining the tanks+melee marked targets. When a ranged gets a mark, have them go melee if at all possible (make sure they hold off a few seconds before unloading on beasts). Then the single shaman can keep tanks and 2 marks alive by chaining through them and marked targets. Druid then just has to watch 1 ranged mark with hots and ffa the rest.
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85 Draenei Shaman
4815
Shaman can basically take care of two marks on their own without much trouble (more if all but one are in melee). If the mark is in melee, just chain it into the tanks, if it's at range, Earth Shield and keep riptide rolling on it.

In my experience, we'd always get a mark for every healer we had. More healers, more marks. Never got 3 marks with two healers, but it should still be manageable.

@Jynus: I wouldn't ask a ranged to move into melee range, being 10 man, they'll most likely be getting aggro from the beasts, and ES + RT should handle mark damage with little maintenance.

Edit: Oh yeah, I've healed heroic dbs on my fresh 80 druid who was still wearing some feral crap without issue, again, 2 marks. Sounds like other people need to not be feeding him blood power, and probably step up the dps. If the tank with Rune of Blood gets hit even once, the other tank is doing it wrong. Taunt should be in the air as soon as it falls off them (and therefore right before/as it goes up on the other tank). Anyone letting a blood beast hit them is also fail. Anyone rooting a bloodbeast while it's directly beside anyone (frost nova) is the worst.
Edited by Niraada on 12/1/2010 7:52 AM PST
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90 Dwarf Shaman
4865
Shaman should be Chaining the tanks+melee marked targets. When a ranged gets a mark, have them go melee if at all possible (make sure they hold off a few seconds before unloading on beasts). Then the single shaman can keep tanks and 2 marks alive by chaining through them and marked targets. Druid then just has to watch 1 ranged mark with hots and ffa the rest.


This, we 2 heal it with me as the shaman and other as a tree, positioning makes all the difference, that and what niraada put in the edit
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90 Draenei Shaman
8150
@Jynus: I wouldn't ask a ranged to move into melee range, being 10 man, they'll most likely be getting aggro from the beasts, and ES + RT should handle mark damage with little maintenance.

not an issue. Long as you wait a couple seconds before you lay into the mob, agro shouldn't happen. In 25man we've had upwards of 3 ranged marks in melee and it's never been a problem for them to watch and agro meter and dps smartly. And ES a mark target?!? o.O
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10 Draenei Warrior
30
the advice here is pretty spot-on.

one thing we like to do on our 10man runs is put up our /range finder w/ DBM and set it to 12 yards then position ranged in a semi-circle around the platform.

blood power stacks are your issue, not healing power.
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85 Draenei Shaman
4815
@Jynus: I wouldn't ask a ranged to move into melee range, being 10 man, they'll most likely be getting aggro from the beasts, and ES + RT should handle mark damage with little maintenance.

not an issue. Long as you wait a couple seconds before you lay into the mob, agro shouldn't happen. In 25man we've had upwards of 3 ranged marks in melee and it's never been a problem for them to watch and agro meter and dps smartly. And ES a mark target?!? o.O


Yep. Mark of the Fallen Champion is like a cleave (in that it causes "the caster's melee attacks to splash to the target, dealing X damage", read the spell tooltip), which procs the ES heal, which pretty much takes care of it on its own even in 25 player heroic. RT is just to make sure they stay topped up

Edit: clarified spell description
Edited by Niraada on 12/1/2010 8:21 AM PST
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87 Night Elf Druid
7985
I've 3 healed alt runs, on heroic Saurfang, with less dps than you guys are doing.

My guess? You aren't killing the adds fast enough, or you are letting the adds actually chew on someone.

It's common to see adds chew on ranged, because ranged folks aren't paying attention to CC, and it's common to see adds chew on melee/tanks, because the melee/tanks are being stupid and throwing out AOE when the adds spawn (it's really common to see prot pallies screw up like this). Anyone being chewed on is bad.

Alternately, your tanks aren't swapping at the right time. But normally it's because someone is screwing up while handling the adds.

Any way you cut it, it has nothing to do with healing.
Edited by Treeboi on 12/1/2010 3:46 PM PST
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85 Human Priest
10385
Secret Technique: Use 1 Healer.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
blood beast, core problem. I cant comment on the healing part as I havent play shammy nor drood, but you should not get third mark (may be occasionally by slow dps a third mark @ 1-2%) but usually if blood beast is handled correctly, problem sloved.
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84 Human Priest
6510
Secret Technique: Use 1 Healer.
Especially since 4.0, with the fight only requiring about 5k hps or less.
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
Thanks for all the advice, it seems we were probably allowing too much blood power. Honestly, I didn't even think to dps, but I'm going to start throwing out a bit of dps in the beginning if it will help since there's so little healing to do then anyways.
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90 Troll Druid
9040
If you're geting 3 marks up by the end of the fight the problem isn't with healing. One of the 2 following problems are killing you guys.

1. The tanks aren't switching fast enough and Sauerfang is getting too much runic power back. This makes the marks happen faster and can't be fixed by healing.

2. The blood beasts are hitting people and generating runic power for Sauerfang. There are three ways this can happen and none of them can be fixed by healing.
2A. Tanks are using cleave/AE tanking abilities when the beasts spawn and they're getting agro, so the beasts beat on them.
2B. Melee is using cleave abilities and they're getting agro and the blood beasts on them.
2C. Ranged is too close to where the blood beasts spawn or they're not focusing the beasts down before they get to them.

In my 10man in regular mode Sauerfang is dead before 1 mark goes out, while in heroic mode we usually get him a little before or a little after the first mark goes out, but never after 2 marks.

FYI: Going down to 1 healer when either your tanks or DPS are as sloppy as the seem to be, as eidenced by how much runic power Sauerfang is getting, is a bad idea IMHO. They'll still be sloppy, causing marks and you won't have the ability to keep up healing. Firgure out what the problem is before dropping to 1 healer.



Edited by Apeck on 12/2/2010 6:41 AM PST
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1 Human Warrior
0
Secret Technique: Use 1 Healer.
Especially since 4.0, with the fight only requiring about 5k hps or less.


Please show me the log of your solo healing (oh and bonus points for 5k hps or less, as you claim) heroic saurfang and I will either be staring at nothing or a bunch of 12k+ dps and overgeared tanks who trivialize the content. 25 man including 25 man heroic gear is ABOVE the gear level of heroic 10 man. I guarantee you have not solo healed this and thus won't be able to show me a log, if you have you grossly outgear it. So where is your helpful input in this thread? I see none.

O.P Good advice here given by most, talk to your raid leader about how you can stop the marks going out so fast
Edited by Itsover on 12/2/2010 6:48 AM PST
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90 Troll Druid
9040
Please show me the log of your solo healing (oh and bonus points for 5k hps or less, as you claim) heroic saurfang and I will either be staring at nothing or a bunch of 12k+ dps and overgeared tanks who trivialize the content. 25 man including 25 man heroic gear is ABOVE the gear level of heroic 10 man. I guarantee you have not solo healed this and thus won't be able to show me a log, if you have you grossly outgear it. So where is your helpful input in this thread? I see none.


Our paladin can pretty much solo heal this by placing beacon on the mark, but it leaves no room for error so it's not worth messing with.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
If you're geting 3 marks up by the end of the fight the problem isn't with healing. One of the 2 following problems are killing you guys.

1. The tanks aren't switching fast enough and Sauerfang is getting too much runic power back. This makes the marks happen faster and can't be fixed by healing.

2. The blood beasts are hitting people and generating runic power for Sauerfang. There are three ways this can happen and none of them can be fixed by healing.
2A. Tanks are using cleave/AE tanking abilities when the beasts spawn and they're getting agro, so the beasts beat on them.
2B. Melee is using cleave abilities and they're getting agro and the blood beasts on them.
2C. Ranged is too close to where the blood beasts spawn or they're not focusing the beasts down before they get to them.

In my 10man in regular mode Sauerfang is dead before 1 mark goes out, while in heroic mode we usually get him a little before or a little after the first mark goes out, but never after 2 marks.

FYI: Going down to 1 healer when either your tanks or DPS are as sloppy as the seem to be, as eidenced by how much runic power Sauerfang is getting, is a bad idea IMHO. They'll still be sloppy, causing marks and you won't have the ability to keep up healing. Firgure out what the problem is before dropping to 1 healer.


We are in the same situation, I also would not recommend one healer, unless you are sure the 9 others in the raid will not make any mistake. and the tank is well gears so he doesnt put much pressure on the sole healer
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