Arena Players, Can you flip the switch?

90 Tauren Druid
7015
Not everything from arena translates over to BG and vice versa.


I don't really understand what your point is. Do you feel inferior to arena players that you try to prop bg heroes up? Besides that, everything from arena translates into BG, guess who will win that 5v5 in the smith and take the smith?
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85 Orc Warrior
4400
Did an AB with Affx about a week ago on my rogue, and I can tell you that quite literally without us in the BG horde would have lost. We were the only ones who were calling out, and the level of play and amount of people that we could take out 2vX as non-healing classes was unbelievable. No BG hero with their battlemaster achievement and an arena rating below 1800 could make a fraction of the difference players like Affx, or even 2600 gladiators, could.

On a similar note, I think that my "saying" that I've had since about s3 is relevant to this topic. I'd rather do raids with 24 other glads, than 24 of the servers best guild's PvErs.
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90 Draenei Hunter
10330
I'd rather do raids with 24 other glads, than 24 of the servers best guild's PvErs.


I understand what you intended to imply with that statement, but your choice in wording was quite poor.
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85 Orc Warrior
4400
I'd rather do raids with 24 other glads, than 24 of the servers best guild's PvErs.


I understand what you intended to imply with that statement, but your choice in wording was quite poor.

It's REALLY hard to say it properly...I sat there for about 5 minutes after I wrote the rest of my post trying to think of the right order to say it in.
Basically, I dare you to try it better :P

Oh yeah that's why I hardly say my favorite saying...
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http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/802/wowscrnshot113010175513.jpg

^^

this is what a decent arena player produces in a pug, and without much effort nonetheless


Imagine what the Glads will be putting out VS BG heros


I think there is a disconnect between the OP's point and what you are hearing.

Glad's will not be fighting against BG heroes, they will be fighting against other Glad's. They won't have a super awesome FOTM comps, or matches where they automatically win/loose based on what map was picked.

I'm of the opinion that great PVPers are great PVPers regardless of where they PVP. But i'm also wondering what's going to happen when you have so many cooks in the kitchen.

It's all well and good when your winning, but when you start loosing people tend to get nasty, regardless of the bracket your playing in.
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I'd rather do raids with 24 other glads, than 24 of the servers best guild's PvErs.


I understand what you intended to imply with that statement, but your choice in wording was quite poor.

It's REALLY hard to say it properly...I sat there for about 5 minutes after I wrote the rest of my post trying to think of the right order to say it in.
Basically, I dare you to try it better :P

Oh yeah that's why I hardly say my favorite saying...


Hmm, I'd say " I'd rather raid with 24 Gladiators then 24 of this servers Light's of Dawn."

Not sure if i agree with this sentiment, especially if the feat was done before the patch, but I think that makes sense.. maybe?
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85 Orc Warrior
4400

Hmm, I'd say " I'd rather raid with 24 Gladiators then 24 of this servers Light's of Dawn."

Not sure if i agree with this sentiment, especially if the feat was done before the patch, but I think that makes sense.. maybe?


Yeah how I used to say it was "than 24 Kingslayers" when ICC was progression (Meaning pre 5% buff) and in BC it was something along the lines of "Hand's of A'dal" even though I had the title... Either way, you know what I mean, and now the point is a little better :P

The gist of it, is that high level PvPers WILL know their class inside and out, and will know every single ability to use in each encounter and each time (Countless times I've seen mages die to a slow dot or AoE without ice blocking, and cast upon cast getting through with no interrupts from anyone).
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78 Undead Rogue
1170
Not everything from arena translates over to BG and vice versa.


I don't really understand what your point is. Do you feel inferior to arena players that you try to prop bg heroes up? Besides that, everything from arena translates into BG, guess who will win that 5v5 in the smith and take the smith?


Thats true...but by assuming that the 5v5 Arena Team will win that fight, you are assuming that they will actually be at that smith too.

See how that works?
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85 Human Paladin
8180

On a similar note, I think that my "saying" that I've had since about s3 is relevant to this topic. I'd rather do raids with 24 other glads, than 24 of the servers best guild's PvErs.


I am in a unique situation to actually tell you this is completely wrong. I have been a gladiator on three classes as well as being the GM and raid leader of a top20 US guild. Over the years we have recruited a ton of PvPers for the exact reason that in general they are better at situational awareness, communication, and simply knowing their class inside and out. However, in my experience, a lot of glad level players are just plain awful PvE'rs, not sure if it is lack of 25 man experience or what exactly, but most of the ones I have played with have underperformed in raids.

You are comparing gladiators to random pug bads. You have to compare the best with the best, not the best with the average.

Some of my guilds best players are gladiators though, I think that has less to do with them being great PvE'rs than the fact that they are just overall great players who also enjoy PvP. Great players are great players, no matter which aspect of the game they prefer.

As far as BG's vs arenas, no question the top arena players will be the top rated BG players. People thinking for some reason that arena PvPers would rather never die than win are just ridiculous, players constantly put themselves in situations where they can die to score a kill and win a game in arena, at the end of the day it is about winning.
Edited by Beta on 12/1/2010 1:36 AM PST
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1 Draenei Hunter
0
I am in a unique situation to actually tell you this is completely wrong.


Even if you've been in this "situation" since the first day of season one, your sample size is still incredibly small -- too small to draw anything resembling a definitive conclusion from.
Edited by Mayeli on 12/1/2010 2:57 AM PST
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As others have been saying pretty much every Glad, and I'd say Duelist and maybe even Rival pulls more weight in a BG than almost every player that only does BGs.

I don't keep a lot of BG SSs but this is the best I've got but I doubt Alliance would've won this one w/out me and I'm not even a very good arena player. >_<

http://i.imgur.com/imUtf.jpg

Was my very last BG as the good old pre-4.0 frost. I miss it. :(
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85 Human Paladin
8180

Even if you've been in this "situation" since the first day of season one, your sample size is still incredibly small -- too small to draw anything resembling a definitive conclusion from.


So your point is that someone who has never raided in any competitive sense at all, and is a 2300 arena player knows more about gladiators and high end raiders than a high end raiding gladiator?

His "saying" is completely false, he has no clue what he is talking about and is simply trying to make himself sound cool by belittling raiders. I wasn't the one pulling some ridiculous conclusion about something I have no experience with out of thin air, I have raided near the top, I have arena'd near the top, and I can say from experience that he is wrong. Find someone with more PvE and PvP experience than me that disagrees or gtfo.
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85 Human Rogue
10610
Critful, typical argument. But if I got Gladiator on Season 5 DK, with a Holy Paly and a Warrior/Hunter, would there be a new level of respect? Somehow I doubt you would suddenly bow to my awesome rating. Arena seasons are about as balanced as a man bringing a gun to a knife fight. Sure the knife guy may get lucky occasionally but if you run the simulator over 10,000 fights, you find the gun guy wins the majority. Right now, the most dominant teams bring heavy CC and very good burst, Season 5 was melee cleave. If I level my warlock and dominate next season, getting to 2400 or whatever the magic epeen can talk crap number is, then will you bow to my great knowledge of PVP? I can be a great fisherman and never use a lure.......

Raennie


Battleground enthusiasts like this seem to have little-man syndrome. They keep fighting to proclaim their little league fun is just as good as the big leagues and so are the people who play it. You don't need to convince anyone, if you actually believe it that should be all that's important to you.

To address your original post, the very top arena players will be successful in any part of the game they endeavour to step into. Sure, there are random cases like S5 DK's or Holy Pallies where a player will benefit from an extreme imbalance and get ratings or titles they don't necessarily deserve, but they are not the top arena players I was referring to, and to be perfectly honest, those class imbalances are not exclusive to arena's.

Also, on a side-note, you do not need to end each post with your name. It isn't stylistic. It's simply bland and redundant.
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85 Gnome Death Knight
7605
Battleground enthusiasts like this seem to have little-man syndrome. They keep fighting to proclaim their little league fun is just as good as the big leagues and so are the people who play it. You don't need to convince anyone, if you actually believe it that should be all that's important to you.

To address your original post, the very top arena players will be successful in any part of the game they endeavour to step into. Sure, there are random cases like S5 DK's or Holy Pallies where a player will benefit from an extreme imbalance and get ratings or titles they don't necessarily deserve, but they are not the top arena players I was referring to, and to be perfectly honest, those class imbalances are not exclusive to arena's.

Also, on a side-note, you do not need to end each post with your name. It isn't stylistic. It's simply bland and redundant.


Lol, hey I wonder was there a time when arena didn't exist and the top PVP players were in guilds dedicated solely to that aspect of the game? Some of those players didn't join arena because they didn't like that format for battles/combat. Hint: These people know as much as you do about their class as you know about yours. They use to play 40 hours a week. I think its funny that people say "oo that was just a grind" well guess what....that means they have seen every class/spec/race combo in pvp, from scrubs to arenaphiles(old school pvpers). They know how every class plays and can counter every setup in BG's. They already have the knowledge that the new top rated BG's will be trying to acquire. Why, cause they freaking played these battlegrounds and didn't afk out, thousands upon thousands of times. Whats really funny is you admitting that seasonal imbalances create gladiators. Its going to still happen in rated BG's but I think with more numbers, OP classes can be countered a bit easier(hard to do with 3's). We will all see shortly.

Raennie

PS:How many times must I say this....I don't care if you hate my name posting at the end. Keep opinions about style to yourself please. They don't add anything to the subject at hand.
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85 Human Rogue
10610
Lol, hey I wonder was there a time when arena didn't exist and the top PVP players were in guilds dedicated solely to that aspect of the game? Some of those players didn't join arena because they didn't like that format for battles/combat. Hint: These people know as much as you do about their class as you know about yours. They use to play 40 hours a week. I think its funny that people say "oo that was just a grind" well guess what....that means they have seen every class/spec/race combo in pvp, from scrubs to arenaphiles(old school pvpers). They know how every class plays and can counter every setup in BG's. They already have the knowledge that the new top rated BG's will be trying to acquire. Why, cause they freaking played these battlegrounds and didn't afk out, thousands upon thousands of times.


Your argument is that experience or total time invested is equivalent to skill. It is not. Intelligence and Awareness are factors as well. I'm not discounting experience but your argument that experience alone makes you a good player is not at all accurate.

There were many, many players in Classic who did the Rank 14 grind but fell off the face of the PvP scene when arena's were introduced. They just didn't have the individual skill to compete. Their accolades in battlegrounds came from grinding out games and being carried in a group environment against primarily pug opponents.

Whats really funny is you admitting that seasonal imbalances create gladiators. Its going to still happen in rated BG's but I think with more numbers, OP classes can be countered a bit easier(hard to do with 3's). We will all see shortly.


I don't think it's a secret to anyone that there have been some imbalances which led to some less than great players reaching top ranks. The difference between my view of it and yours is that I was referencing extremes (such as S5 DK's & Pallies) and you are thinking that most gladiator's each season get it because they are playing whatever is the slight FOTM class and/or spec.

PS:How many times must I say this....I don't care if you hate my name posting at the end. Keep opinions about style to yourself please. They don't add anything to the subject at hand.


I don't know how many times you've said it (nor do I care). I was not posting about style, I was posting about redundancy. Also, do you find it at all hypocritical that you're telling me to keep my opinions to myself because they don't add anything... but you're adding your name at the conclusion of each of your posts which also serves no purpose?
Edited by Holdem on 12/1/2010 5:41 AM PST
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85 Gnome Death Knight
7605
Your argument is that experience or total time invested is equivalent to skill. It is not. Intelligence and Awareness are factors as well. I'm not discounting experience but your argument that experience alone makes you a good player is not at all accurate.

There were many, many players in Classic who did the Rank 14 grind but fell off the face of the PvP scene when arena's were introduced. They just didn't have the individual skill to compete. Their accolades in battlegrounds came from grinding out games and being carried in a group environment against primarily pug opponents.


Yes because the best professional teams in any sport don't invest time and practice. They are just so naturally good, they don't even need to......

I don't think it's a secret to anyone that there have been some imbalances which led to some less than great players reaching top ranks. The difference between my view of it and yours is that I was referencing extremes (such as S5 DK's & Pallies) and you are thinking that most gladiator's each season get it because they are playing whatever is the slight FOTM class and/or spec.


Really, how many seasons seasons can you point to an OP healer, or spec, that led to several comps being dominant? Hint: It only takes 1 class out of balance to create many comps that suddenly dominate. Are you honestly suggesting that only 1 season had an out of balance spec from 30?

I don't know how many times you've said it (nor do I care). I was not posting about style, I was posting about redundancy. Also, do you find it at all hypocritical that you're telling me to keep my opinions to myself because they don't add anything... but you're adding your name at the conclusion of each of your posts which also serves no purpose?


Apparently you didn't get the memo, so I had to add that snippet. Had you instead stayed on the subject, I wouldn't have had to say anything. But you are entitled to your opinion, this just isn't the place to be critiquing style. Note sure there is a style forum, but i am pretty sure this is the damage dealing forums. I still love all of you, in the end we all enjoy PVP.

Raennie
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85 Blood Elf Mage
13125
Even people who get carried by gladiator by some stupidly overpowered comp are generally far better than the random people who come on here posting about how arenas are stupid, simply because they can't handle an actual competitive environment.
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