Druid healing and going OOM

85 Goblin Shaman
6990
I am after some info in regards to druid healing since the increse in the cost of rejuv. Now i dont have a druid myself but I'm a RL for my guild and i have some concerns. My resto druid has since last patch been going oom very quickly and sits around 60% overheals on 10man ICC HM bosses. I have always been under the impression that druids will overheal alot due hots but 60% is massive and it seems to me like a waste of heals and mana. Going into Cata im really not too worried about icc anymore but i cant shake the feeling that this healer is feeding me crap, I dont for a second believe the blizz intended on a class overhealing by such rediculous amount. Any assistance on this would be greatly appreciated.
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90 Draenei Shaman
8150
for wrath, overhealing is meaningless.. completely meaningless. The problem is latest patch killed healers with implementing the cata mechanics. So for these 2 weeks, we're kinda in limbo till cata starts.

Once cata start, then ya, overhealing will mean a LOT more for EVERY class. 60% just won't cut it. More like <20%.
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85 Worgen Druid
10050
Adapt to changes, be a better player, win.
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58 Human Death Knight
0
The Wrath style of druid healing does cause at least that much overheal. Honestly, I would say 60% is a little on the low side. Moving into Cata dungeons and raids you will see a lot less overheal as the healing style changes a lot and duids will no longer be able to blanket the raid and healing becomes more reactive rather than preemptive.

His recent mana issues are due to the last patch that gave druids a huge mana nerf, revitalize took a big hit and rejuv had its cost increased, however, the demand of Wrath healing has stayed the same. I wouldn't worry too much until you are raiding in Cata and he and he still hasn't learned how to manage his mana.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12620
60% overheal definitely isn't out of bounds. ICC wasn't designed for healing efficiency, especially in hard modes. You have to heal now, you have to heal hard or people will die. Whether or not Druids are still viable in ICC hard modes, I can't really comment since my guild has stopped raiding till after Cataclysm. Is your Druid using Innervate on cool down? Do you have another Druid in the raid they could swap (glyphed) Innervates with? Did they bring mana pots? Spirit flasks and food? Are they specced to take advantage of available regen talents? Do they have stats they could reforge to Spirit?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
I am after some info in regards to druid healing since the increse in the cost of rejuv. Now i dont have a druid myself but I'm a RL for my guild and i have some concerns. My resto druid has since last patch been going oom very quickly and sits around 60% overheals on 10man ICC HM bosses. I have always been under the impression that druids will overheal alot due hots but 60% is massive and it seems to me like a waste of heals and mana. Going into Cata im really not too worried about icc anymore but i cant shake the feeling that this healer is feeding me crap, I dont for a second believe the blizz intended on a class overhealing by such rediculous amount. Any assistance on this would be greatly appreciated.


Im also a RL for my guild, thou I dont have a res durid anymore in 10man, I would advise you get him to use more direct heals (due to the nature of direct healing) and learn ALL his healing spells, mainly on their mana costs and comparisons. and take to the point of re-learning the "How-to" with durid and get him to heal based on the intention of keeping ppl alive and conserving mana more than trying to top the chart. If it takes a few wipes to get a old raid member/friend get up to speed, so be it.
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85 Tauren Druid
4135
Like a previous poster stated, at the moment healing is in limbo. You waont be spamming rejuv much in Cata. Lifebloom wasnt even used in Wotlk, make sure you dust of that one from your spellbook, its huge now.

Damage isnt as spiky and you shouldnt try to be topping everyone back up to 100% health. You will go oom if you do. Triage will be needed, have to prioritise heals. Healer > Tank > DPS. Watch a few beta raid clips on Youtube, notice how HP of the raid isnt jumping up and down so much. Makes for interesting healing. That 2 second Heling touch or Nourish can now be used without fear of instand death :)
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85 Night Elf Druid
0
Citycircuit, that's bad advice for the current level 80 raids.

Level 80 raids were designed around fast cast heals. Slow cast heals will get people killed. That's just the nature of the current level 80 raids.

Skitziblink, I'd tell you to go stack spirit. If your gear is lacking spirit, reforge another stat to spirit. If you had reforged your spirit to something else, undo that, so you get all your spirit back. Put the int/mana regen meta gem back in your helm, if you don't have it already, and start wearing those regen trinkets again.

That's pretty much the best way to deal with your mana issues for right now.

Once you start getting some Cataclysm gear, and health pools start increasing much more than they are now, then you can start using your slow healing spells more often. Until then, you are stuck stacking spirit as an interim solution.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0
Citycircuit, that's bad advice for the current level 80 raids.

Level 80 raids were designed around fast cast heals. Slow cast heals will get people killed. That's just the nature of the current level 80 raids.

Skitziblink, I'd tell you to go stack spirit. If your gear is lacking spirit, reforge another stat to spirit. If you had reforged your spirit to something else, undo that, so you get all your spirit back. Put the int/mana regen meta gem back in your helm, if you don't have it already, and start wearing those regen trinkets again.

That's pretty much the best way to deal with your mana issues for right now.

Once you start getting some Cataclysm gear, and health pools start increasing much more than they are now, then you can start using your slow healing spells more often. Until then, you are stuck stacking spirit as an interim solution.


You may be right as my raid does not have a durid, so I could not keep an eye on how much healing was a durid doing. thou, casting casting slow but direct heals at times when bosses arent in aoe phase would still save a lot of mana, for certain bosses like HLK and HFestergut, yes, speed means survival.

overall, i still recommend giving it a try, sticking to the concept of "bring the player, not the class" you'll have to find a way to work it, even if it means trail and error.
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85 Night Elf Druid
9975
As a resto druid I have had to adapt my play a little bit to handle the increased mana cost of our spells. Basically I just innervate with 2/3 of my mana left, then it will be ready again usually before the end of the fight and you shouldn't have any problems going oom. If necessary mana potions could also be used.

I personally still do a lot of overhealing...it's hard not to if you put a rejuv on a target and then one of the other healers tops him off right after. The rest of your rejuv ticks will all be going to overhealing. Or when you swiftmend the tank and it sticks efflorescence under all the melee even though maybe the tank is the only one below full health. ^.^

To combat this you could always assign your healers to groups. I have done this before on some fights. This helps to reduce overhealing since they're focused on just keeping their group up and they won't be healing the same target at the same time. This will put more pressure on your healers to perform because if someone in their group dies it's their fault for not keeping them up.

Also you didn't state whether you ran 10ms or 25ms, but I have heard that 25 healing in Cata is slightly easier and less mana costly than 10m healing. Whether this is true or not I cannot confirm...just something I have heard.
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85 Draenei Priest
7625
for wrath, overhealing is meaningless.. completely meaningless. The problem is latest patch killed healers with implementing the cata mechanics. So for these 2 weeks, we're kinda in limbo till cata starts.

Once cata start, then ya, overhealing will mean a LOT more for EVERY class. 60% just won't cut it. More like <20%.


Overhealing is meaningless unless you are going OOM; if you are going OOM, then efficiency has to be looked at. That said, 60% is fairly low for any healer (except a disc priest) in ICC with a 30% buff. The druid nerf has been overblown; they were just brought down closer (but not nerfed enough yet) to the level of holy priests in terms of regen. I did ICC25 HM on my druid alt this weekend, and while the change is noticeable, mana is not really that big of a deal; it's about equivalent to my pally/shammy and still much stronger than my more geared holy priest main. You just have to be intelligent about your spell usage, make sure you innervate yourself as soon as you are at 75% mana or below (to get it back off CD as many times as possible during the fight), use mana pots, etc.

Also, if mana is a big issue, look at what trinkets he is using. If he is using Glowing Twilight Scale and Althor's Abacus, suggest either or both be dumped for regen trinkets (264 badge trinket, Marrowgar 10 man trinket, solaces). You can get a load of extra regen from using the regen based trinkets. As well, look at how he is reforged. Most resto druids had infinite mana post 4.0 until 4.0.3a and reforged off as much spirit as they could. You want to reforge that spirit back if you are going OOM. For stat priority, it's probably haste to the 1015 threshold>INT>Spirit>Mastery>Crit right now.
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85 Tauren Druid
5160
I'm looking forward to adapting, but can someone who has been in beta tell me if we're back to being the buffer for other healers like we were in BC or if we're simply supposed to rely more on our direct heals?
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5 Human Warlock
0
If he doesn't shape up for Cata, replace him. Simple as that.
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85 Goblin Shaman
6990
I thank you all for your thoughts, as I dont have a druid and I dont heal a great deal myself being OS heals. I was unsure about the whole situation. I will discuss this with him further and see how cata changes things. Good luck to all of you in cata and again thank you.
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85 Draenei Priest
7625
I'm looking forward to adapting, but can someone who has been in beta tell me if we're back to being the buffer for other healers like we were in BC or if we're simply supposed to rely more on our direct heals?


You're still going to be using your HoTs, but you will also be using direct heals too. Rejuv and WG still probably will be your highest healing sources, but you probably will have to restrict yourself to 3-5 rejuvs at a time (i.e. on tanks and a few high damage people or healing 1 group). You will not be able to spam it on 10+ people like you were in Wrath. Really, the only spell that is going to be nearly removed from your spell rotation is Regrowth (except for with Omen procs) because the mana cost is so prohibitive. The flash heal type spells for all other classes (flash Heal/Healing Surge/Flash of Light) are going to be the same way; used in dire emergencies only because they are so expensive.

Lifebloom is amazing and will heal for a lot more at 85 with less overhealing than it does currently and Swiftmend/Efflo is still affordable on cooldown as long as you have a rejuv effect up (which you should). You have a big advantage over other healers in that your ground AoE spell is spammable on CD. Although it heals for less than HW:S/Healing Rain/Holy Radiance, those all have cooldowns and high mana costs and won't be spammed on CD, so you probably will get more out of it than other healers will. Nourish will be used when there is nothing else that needs to be cast (it's basically mana neutral) because you won't be spamming HoTs on full health people anymore. Healing Touch will be used mainly with Natures Swiftness and when tank healing when Lifebloom/Rejuv/Nourish isn't giving enough throughput.

Overall, druids look to be in fine shape at 85. Most of the raid numbers that came out from beta show them (post Efflo/Revitalize nerf) as competing with pallies for the top spot on the meters with the other 3 healing classes pretty far behind. It's just going to be a matter of learning how to play all over again, and it will be a steeper learning curve for druids than other healers. More than any other healing class, druid regen (and usually output too) was completely out of control throughout Wrath and you'll have to get out of the run around and spam instant casts all day long groove.
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I just did HLK attempts... our healing setup was 1 disc, 1 shaman, 1 paladin and 3 resto druids.


You don't see a problem here?
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85 Tauren Druid
5160
I'm looking forward to adapting, but can someone who has been in beta tell me if we're back to being the buffer for other healers like we were in BC or if we're simply supposed to rely more on our direct heals?


You're still going to be using your HoTs, but you will also be using direct heals too. Rejuv and WG still probably will be your highest healing sources, but you probably will have to restrict yourself to 3-5 rejuvs at a time (i.e. on tanks and a few high damage people or healing 1 group). You will not be able to spam it on 10+ people like you were in Wrath. Really, the only spell that is going to be nearly removed from your spell rotation is Regrowth (except for with Omen procs) because the mana cost is so prohibitive. The flash heal type spells for all other classes (flash Heal/Healing Surge/Flash of Light) are going to be the same way; used in dire emergencies only because they are so expensive.

Lifebloom is amazing and will heal for a lot more at 85 with less overhealing than it does currently and Swiftmend/Efflo is still affordable on cooldown as long as you have a rejuv effect up (which you should). You have a big advantage over other healers in that your ground AoE spell is spammable on CD. Although it heals for less than HW:S/Healing Rain/Holy Radiance, those all have cooldowns and high mana costs and won't be spammed on CD, so you probably will get more out of it than other healers will. Nourish will be used when there is nothing else that needs to be cast (it's basically mana neutral) because you won't be spamming HoTs on full health people anymore. Healing Touch will be used mainly with Natures Swiftness and when tank healing when Lifebloom/Rejuv/Nourish isn't giving enough throughput.

Overall, druids look to be in fine shape at 85. Most of the raid numbers that came out from beta show them (post Efflo/Revitalize nerf) as competing with pallies for the top spot on the meters with the other 3 healing classes pretty far behind. It's just going to be a matter of learning how to play all over again, and it will be a steeper learning curve for druids than other healers. More than any other healing class, druid regen (and usually output too) was completely out of control throughout Wrath and you'll have to get out of the run around and spam instant casts all day long groove.


Thanks for the info. I am a little worried about what you mentioned with Nourish being mana neutral, is this including fully stacked HoTs on the target or no? Does that even matter anymore?
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100 Night Elf Druid
14775

Thanks for the info. I am a little worried about what you mentioned with Nourish being mana neutral, is this including fully stacked HoTs on the target or no? Does that even matter anymore?


No it doesn't matter - the glyph is gone so as long as 1 hot is on the target you get the 20% increase +mastery. More hots do not further increase nourish output.

As to the mana neutral, he means that its cost is low enough, that with reasonable regen, the cost of spamming nourish is canceled out by your mana regen (mana pool neither goes up nor down significantly during that period) - you use that to slowly patch people up when you don't need (or can't afford) the other faster/stronger/more expensive heals.
Edited by Keiyra on 12/1/2010 9:20 AM PST
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