Cleaning up Chakra a bit

85 Human Priest
1340
1) It might be worth separating Revelations from Holy Word: Chastise, and making them two separate spells, Revelations being inactive until Chakra is activated.

2) Being that it has become a core talent of Holy, Chakra can switch places with Chastise as the Specialization talent.

3) Instead of Chakra being activated by certain spells, selecting the talent could create access to three stances on the stance bar. Simply clicking the stance activates the chakra effect. The durations will still be there, it just wont be accessible if the stances are on cooldown.

Tell me what you think Blizzard!
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90 Human Priest
8080
That's what they need to do with chakra, just turn it into a stance bar. Take the 30 second duration away and replace it with a 30 second cooldown before you are able to switch stances again. Make the chakra state permenant until you switch to a different state. Not that this hasent already been suggested a hundred times, I would just like to see it implementated.
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85 Gnome Priest
3845
I just got it tonight but it already feels that way. I already macroed it into their relevant abilities.

I don't know about it being the 'default' spec ability but it does feel like it should be a 'permanent' state with chakra allowing you to change the state. They can change state of mind to cause the corresponding chakra state to improve when their spells are used or they can opt to increase chakra's cooldown and have state of mind reduce it(though that feels lame), or they can replace the talent entirely. State of mind could also be moved to 'extend' off of revelations and reduce the cooldown on the holy word abilities.
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85 Goblin Priest
3975
The only thing this model is really changing is method of activation for the stances... I don't really see how the present method is a problem at all or how making and actual stance bar would really change anything. I would not however macro chakra to heal/pom... there are plenty of times I want to pom in serenity and when i want to heal in Sanctuary and dont want to switch stances cause chakra is off cd. But back on topic some... you can already stay in the "stance" for longer then the cd of chakra so how is making a 30s cd stance bar going to change anything at all accept for related talents IE: Revalation and State of Mind but there are a million and 1 ideas for these and without some form of agreeance as to their change all these "make it a stance" threads don't get very far.

On a side note what becomes of holy word: chastise? Am I now going to be required to spec a nuke/disorient? Cause that seems rather silly to be a deep holy talent. Natural response is come up witha new one and make it trained? Def not disc priests do not need Chastise so i don't see that happening for pvp reasons.
Edited by Pyridoxine on 12/2/2010 7:59 AM PST
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85 Undead Priest
4005
having to click the thing every 30s is pretty damn annoying
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
The only thing this model is really changing is method of activation for the stances... I don't really see how the present method is a problem at all or how making and actual stance bar would really change anything. I would not however macro chakra to heal/pom... there are plenty of times I want to pom in serenity and when i want to heal in Sanctuary and dont want to switch stances cause chakra is off cd. But back on topic some... you can already stay in the "stance" for longer then the cd of chakra so how is making a 30s cd stance bar going to change anything at all accept for related talents IE: Revalation and State of Mind but there are a million and 1 ideas for these and without some form of agreeance as to their change all these "make it a stance" threads don't get very far.

On a side note what becomes of holy word: chastise? Am I now going to be required to spec a nuke/disorient? Cause that seems rather silly to be a deep holy talent. Natural response is come up witha new one and make it trained? Def not disc priests do not need Chastise so i don't see that happening for pvp reasons.


Umm, most people agree Chakra as a stance is better than what Chakra is now. Forcing you to use a specific heal that may not be optimal or practical to use, as often as every 30 seconds, is in no way a good mechanic. It's an awkward and annoying thing you have to keep doing to make sure your +healing buff doesn't fall off.

I think Chakra as a whole is a good idea. I like the idea of being able to switch into different modes of healing, and getting a new heal to compliment that type of healing along the way. What makes absolutely no sense to me is the very strange way you go about activating it. Or the fact that it can even run out. Unless Priests are going to be more powerful than other healers while Chakra is active (obviously isn't the case), then Chakra becomes a liability that Priests have to deal with just to be on par with other healers.
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85 Goblin Priest
3975
If you are reactivating chakra every 30s you probably aren't choosing the proper stance to enter for the current fight.

If you think using a spell based on a cd and reusing it when it comes up is hard or annoying, I really hope you never play a dps. Clearly we should get some combat rogues up in here complaining that they shouldn't have to hit killingspree it should just be an automatic dps increase.

Its off the gcd and free? And its duration can be extended longer then its cd so you can refresh well before you loose the stance.

Imo if you are doing it right chakra does make us above average healers. We can instantly switch from an above average AoE spec and an Above average tank healing spec.

I'm not gonna argue that having a stance system isnt "easier" cause it obviously is but what I'm not seeing is the difficulty behind the current system. I never loose my chakra stance and I don't even loose a gcd or mana to refresh it back to 30s. Clearly Blizzard should really give priests something to whine about and set it back to a minute cd with a 30s initial duration.

Indicators of players being above average become fewer and fewer with every patch cause blizzard wants to make things easier and if it were up to some of the people I see crying on these forums there would only be 1 healing spell in the game to avoid confusion and balance issues. But hey atleast we'd know when things were too hard or OP.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
That's what they need to do with chakra, just turn it into a stance bar. Take the 30 second duration away and replace it with a 30 second cooldown before you are able to switch stances again. Make the chakra state permenant until you switch to a different state. Not that this hasent already been suggested a hundred times, I would just like to see it implementated.



This is a good idea,My own opinion of chakra is that it doesnt really need a change but if anything were to happen to it this would be #1 on my list of ideas.


It is a good idea. If they were implement it I would consider going back to my Priest. After playing a no nonsense Paladin, it's really hard to justify going back.

The Chakra buff itself is fun. The meta game you have to play to keep it going is not, and only takes away from the Priest experience. Holy Priests are supposed to be about having a heal for every situation. For whatever reason some people seem to interpret that as having as many buttons as possible, which isn't the same thing.

If you are reactivating chakra every 30s you probably aren't choosing the proper stance to enter for the current fight.

If you think using a spell based on a cd and reusing it when it comes up is hard or annoying, I really hope you never play a dps. Clearly we should get some combat rogues up in here complaining that they shouldn't have to hit killingspree it should just be an automatic dps increase.

Its off the gcd and free? And its duration can be extended longer then its cd so you can refresh well before you loose the stance.

Imo if you are doing it right chakra does make us above average healers. We can instantly switch from an above average AoE spec and an Above average tank healing spec.

I'm not gonna argue that having a stance system isnt "easier" cause it obviously is but what I'm not seeing is the difficulty behind the current system. I never loose my chakra stance and I don't even loose a gcd or mana to refresh it back to 30s. Clearly Blizzard should really give priests something to whine about and set it back to a minute cd with a 30s initial duration.


Healing isn't anything like DPSing. Healing is supposed to be about choosing the optimal heal to keep people alive. That aspect of healing should make Holy Priests one of the most enjoyable healers sine they have the largest spellbook. Unfortunately that aspect of the class has been ruined by mechanics like Chakra that distract or take away from the very thing that makes the class fun.

There is absolutely no good reason that Chakra should have it's current activation mechanic over a stance. You say you're not seeing the difficulty in using Chakra, and yet at the same time you admit a stance system would be easier. That's the point. No one is saying Chakra is hard to use. It's that it's harder than it needs to be or should be. Priests have enough things to be mindful of. They have over 10 different CDs to monitor, renew timers, serendipity stacks, the largest spellbook of any healer, and at the same time they have to play efficiently and pay attention to all the various boss mechanics. Priests don't need more pointless distractions.
Edited by Highbeams on 12/2/2010 9:04 AM PST
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85 Goblin Priest
3975
Monitoring a buff duration isn't hard... If you are having a hard time tracking something as simple as that I worry for you when you start to raid in cata. But if you wanna get into being easier... heck why track anything at all? Why use a triclass system for that matter? We should really start opting for a change so all 10 classes are responsible for keeping themselves alive in raids, mitigating enough dmg, and doing enough dps to complete the encounter... cause that would be the simplest.

Priests have always been the most similar healers to dps in my book because of the very reasons you listed, they have spells that are meant to be used on cd almost regardless of situation. It used to be core to PoM on cooldown even if only the tank was taking dmg for instance. Just like its core now to make sure you are in a chakra stance and refreshing the stance 1-2 times a minute pending on if you are using proper spells is hardly a difficulty worth nerfing in my book.

When come up with a real counter point besides "its easier" cause if the "its easier" logic was how blizzard balanced this game it wouldn't be much of a game.
Edited by Pyridoxine on 12/2/2010 9:13 AM PST
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85 Undead Priest
4005
there is a fine balance between fun and tedious

Monitoring a buff duration isn't hard... If you are having a hard time tracking something as simple as that I worry for you when you start to raid in cata. But if you wanna get into being easier... heck why track anything at all? Why use a triclass system for that matter? We should really start opting for a change so all 10 classes are responsible for keeping themselves alive in raids, mitigating enough dmg, and doing enough dps to complete the encounter... cause that would be the simplest.

Priests have always been the most similar healers to dps in my book because of the very reasons you listed, they have spells that are meant to be used on cd almost regardless of situation. It used to be core to PoM on cooldown even if only the tank was taking dmg for instance. Just like its core now to make sure you are in a chakra stance and refreshing the stance 1-2 times a minute pending on if you are using proper spells is hardly a difficulty worth nerfing in my book.

When come up with a real counter point besides "its easier" cause if the "its easier" logic was how blizzard balanced this game it wouldn't be much of a game.
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72 Troll Rogue
910
Healing isn't anything like DPSing. Healing is supposed to be about choosing the optimal heal to keep people alive. That aspect of healing should make Holy Priests one of the most enjoyable healers sine they have the largest spellbook. Unfortunately that aspect of the class has been ruined by mechanics like Chakra that distract or take away from the very thing that makes the class fun.

Chakra is just fine. When we're raiding Cata content and PoH is cast more often, it will not be an effort to keep up.

There is absolutely no good reason that Chakra should have it's current activation mechanic over a stance. You say you're not seeing the difficulty in using Chakra, and yet at the same time you admit a stance system would be easier.

Easier != better.

That's the point. No one is saying Chakra is hard to use. It's that it's harder than it needs to be or should be. Priests have enough things to be mindful of. They have over 10 different CDs to monitor, renew timers, serendipity stacks, the largest spellbook of any healer, and at the same time they have to play efficiently and pay attention to all the various boss mechanics. Priests don't need more pointless distractions.

Shouldn't Chakra require some attention from the priest? If Chakra was made into a stance bar, you'd simply switch into the proper stance for a given fight and forget about it until the boss dies (there really isn't much call for state switching in what content we've seen). Chakra should be more than fire-and-forget. It is the centerpiece of the Holy tree.
Edited by Vares on 12/2/2010 9:57 AM PST
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85 Human Priest
9140
Monitoring a buff duration isn't hard... If you are having a hard time tracking something as simple as that I worry for you when you start to raid in cata. But if you wanna get into being easier... heck why track anything at all? Why use a triclass system for that matter? We should really start opting for a change so all 10 classes are responsible for keeping themselves alive in raids, mitigating enough dmg, and doing enough dps to complete the encounter... cause that would be the simplest.

Priests have always been the most similar healers to dps in my book because of the very reasons you listed, they have spells that are meant to be used on cd almost regardless of situation. It used to be core to PoM on cooldown even if only the tank was taking dmg for instance. Just like its core now to make sure you are in a chakra stance and refreshing the stance 1-2 times a minute pending on if you are using proper spells is hardly a difficulty worth nerfing in my book.

When come up with a real counter point besides "its easier" cause if the "its easier" logic was how blizzard balanced this game it wouldn't be much of a game.


It's not about making it easier. It is about making it less tedious. It's a quality of life issue.

As holy priests we already had enough cooldowns, situational abilities to monitor without adding this on top of it.

Also I take issue with your assertion that we have spells that are "meant" to be used on cooldown. While it is true that for the majority of Wrath it has been exactly this, I don't think that was ever the intent of the design for any healing class and it certainly flies in the face of Blizz's idea of "choosing the right heal for the job."

We are meant to be casting the proper spells for the damage that is being done. We aren't supposed to be spamming spells on cooldown like dps. That was the whole point of the healing changes for Cataclysm, to move us away from this idea and into a more triage type of healing where spell selection is very important.

Keeping this in mind it does seem to support the idea of making Chakra states easier to manage. The idea that Blizz wants us to be able to pick and choose the right spells for the job, seems to be in direct juxtaposition to what Chakra currently is inasmuch as it requires us to mindlessly cast specific spells to keep it active, whether they are the right spells for the job or not.
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85 Undead Priest
4005
well said



It's not about making it easier. It is about making it less tedious. It's a quality of life issue.

As holy priests we already had enough cooldowns, situational abilities to monitor without adding this on top of it.

Also I take issue with your assertion that we have spells that are "meant" to be used on cooldown. While it is true that for the majority of Wrath it has been exactly this, I don't think that was ever the intent of the design for any healing class and it certainly flies in the face of Blizz's idea of "choosing the right heal for the job."

We are meant to be casting the proper spells for the damage that is being done. We aren't supposed to be spamming spells on cooldown like dps. That was the whole point of the healing changes for Cataclysm, to move us away from this idea and into a more triage type of healing where spell selection is very important.

Keeping this in mind it does seem to support the idea of making Chakra states easier to manage. The idea that Blizz wants us to be able to pick and choose the right spells for the job, seems to be in direct juxtaposition to what Chakra currently is inasmuch as it requires us to mindlessly cast specific spells to keep it active, whether they are the right spells for the job or not.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11845
Not well said.. Chakra isn't good enough to waste mana just to keep it up. So no, it doesn't require you to "mindlessly cast specific spells". You can just refresh Chakra when it falls off if you need it.
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85 Human Priest
9140
Not well said.. Chakra isn't good enough to waste mana just to keep it up. So no, it doesn't require you to "mindlessly cast specific spells". You can just refresh Chakra when it falls off if you need it.


Do you honestly think that priests are going to just let chakra fall off?
Edited by Sparklehorse on 12/2/2010 10:56 AM PST
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85 Goblin Priest
3975

It's not about making it easier. It is about making it less tedious. It's a quality of life issue.

As holy priests we already had enough cooldowns, situational abilities to monitor without adding this on top of it.

Also I take issue with your assertion that we have spells that are "meant" to be used on cooldown. While it is true that for the majority of Wrath it has been exactly this, I don't think that was ever the intent of the design for any healing class and it certainly flies in the face of Blizz's idea of "choosing the right heal for the job."

We are meant to be casting the proper spells for the damage that is being done. We aren't supposed to be spamming spells on cooldown like dps. That was the whole point of the healing changes for Cataclysm, to move us away from this idea and into a more triage type of healing where spell selection is very important.

Keeping this in mind it does seem to support the idea of making Chakra states easier to manage. The idea that Blizz wants us to be able to pick and choose the right spells for the job, seems to be in direct juxtaposition to what Chakra currently is inasmuch as it requires us to mindlessly cast specific spells to keep it active, whether they are the right spells for the job or not.


Maybe you didn't play beta? But "choosing the right spell for the job" still includes spamming and a lot of it. You will spend 90% of your time in heroic in Serenity, when dmg is normal or low on the grp as a whole your most common cast will be Heal and your target will be the "tank". You are choosing the RIGHT spell for the RIGHT job it keeps the tank topped off, renew refreshed and your chakra duration high. Also in this stance its a good habit to use HW: Serenity constantly, its cheaper then heal, and heals for more... its used to recover small amounts of missing hp on grp members when a renew won't be good enough or to keep the extra crit chance on the tank (this helps roll insiration).

Assuming the tank + 1 person is taking dmg (quite common lots of cleave, aoe effects drop on the melee) You will PoM on cd, it auto bounces to people taking dmg(missing hp) so it picks the melee often. CoH will also usually be used on cd here, its cheap, multitarget and instant cast. You are Still picking the right spells at the right time but now you are using HW: Serenity, CoH, and PoM on cd while filling with heal to refresh renew and keep your chakra refreshed.

Choosing the right heal for the right situation is always the case until mana is no longer an issue. To choose the right spell what you are looking at is eHPM and eHPS pending how dire the situation is eHPM usually > eHPS. The spells priests have with cooldowns attached to them support good eHPM AND eHPS so they are still likely to be used all the time.

Keeping chakra rolling on yourself is no different a responsibility then using CoH or PoM at proper times. Arguing your chakra stance should be passive is the same as asking a PoM to shoot off everytime you CoH and if you wanna make that argument to blizzard then go right ahead.
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20 Night Elf Druid
80
My personal theory would be:
1. Change the baseline Holy ability to 'Chakra'. This would be a passive ability that granted certain bonuses for 30 sec after you cast a Holy Word spell. You could only be in one Chakra state at a time.
2. Replace Chakra with Holy Word: Chastise.
3. Replace Revelations with Holy Word: Serenity.
4. Replace State of Mind with Sanctuary (the current Holy Word for AE healing).
5. Circle of Healing becomes "Holy Word: Circle of Healing". Increase the cooldown to 15 sec.

This gets around the problems of a state-shifting spell by separating it into three spells, removes all the clunky activation problems and retains the basic flavor.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
Monitoring a buff duration isn't hard... If you are having a hard time tracking something as simple as that I worry for you when you start to raid in cata. But if you wanna get into being easier... heck why track anything at all? Why use a triclass system for that matter? We should really start opting for a change so all 10 classes are responsible for keeping themselves alive in raids, mitigating enough dmg, and doing enough dps to complete the encounter... cause that would be the simplest.

Priests have always been the most similar healers to dps in my book because of the very reasons you listed, they have spells that are meant to be used on cd almost regardless of situation. It used to be core to PoM on cooldown even if only the tank was taking dmg for instance. Just like its core now to make sure you are in a chakra stance and refreshing the stance 1-2 times a minute pending on if you are using proper spells is hardly a difficulty worth nerfing in my book.

When come up with a real counter point besides "its easier" cause if the "its easier" logic was how blizzard balanced this game it wouldn't be much of a game.


As someone else pointed out, it's a matter of quality of life. Refreshing Chakra simply permits you to be a competitive healer. You don't save anyones life, you don't get some kind of super, above average heal, you just get to be a normal healer. What we have is now is like if Druids had to use some specific sequence of buttons every 30 seconds in order to stay in ToL form, back when it was intended to be up 100% of the time.

No one is saying Chakra on it's own is hard. No one said monitoring a buff is hard. Having to keep track of many different things at once is hard. The brain can only handle so many tasks, and the more of them you have, the less able you are to manage them all properly. I don't care how leet you think you think you are. That's a fact of human capabilities. Even GC said that he noticed Holy Priests die more often to avoidable damage than other healers. Want to take a guess why?

Maybe you didn't play beta? But "choosing the right spell for the job" still includes spamming and a lot of it. You will spend 90% of your time in heroic in Serenity, when dmg is normal or low on the grp as a whole your most common cast will be Heal and your target will be the "tank".


I don't think that was the intended design. I don't think Priests doing most of their healing with PoH is indented either. They clearly ran out of time seeing as they were making huge changes all the way till the end.
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