If Frost = Viable PvE then Arms = Viable PvE

85 Tauren Shaman
6190
Gimme.
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You just want Arms to be OP in PvP like Frost is.

DOWN WITH THE PVE SPECS I SAY! WTB GOOD OLD FROST PVP BACK!
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85 Human Mage
3615
DOWN WITH PVP! WTB FUN PVE SPECS!. Oh wait....frost is fun now. Thanks Blizz. =)
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H8
:[
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85 Worgen Mage
10555
Nah, this "every spec must be good at everything" philosophy is flawed and has to come to an end. I don't want my PvP spec to be overpowered because it has the insane damage output of Fire or Arcane, and I don't want useless PvP talents cluttering up my raid spec either.


This is an old and tired argument. From a game mechanics standpoint there is no difference between a pure class tree and a hybrid class tree. Both have 31-points required, both have up to 10 off-tree points spend, and both have passives and special skills granted for picking that tree at level 10.

If they can design a shadow priest to be effective in both PvE and not overpowered in PvP then they can do the same for an arms warrior or subtlety rogue or frost mage. There's no difference.

It would be a horrible decision to go back to the days where arbitrarily holy paladins were PvE only and arms warriors were PvP only. (And thankfully the chance of the current Blizzard design team making such a decision is less than zero.)

With the baking of DPS into passives and abilities, there's plenty of room for PvE and PvE talents in the same tree. And if you'll note, a lot, if not most, of the talents work in both sides of content, which again is an approach that Blizzard prefers.
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100 Tauren Warrior
15230
Arms DPS is fine and has been even before 4.0.1

People who say arms is bad are people who are used to facerolling fury and don't bother to take the time to learn the priority mechanics of arms dps.

The only thing that changed in 4.0.3 is that the gap got smaller between fury and arms dps.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
1440
Where are these mages who are all up in arms about not being able to pve as frost?

The amount of people who are upset about non-viability of frost in PvE has be exponentially fewer than the amount of people who are upset about the absurd state of balance of frost in pvp.
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85 Tauren Druid
6190
looks like someone wasn't paying attention to beta simcraft/parses.

arms was one of the stronger dps specs in the entire game pre nerfs. haven't seen anything post though.
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If they can design a shadow priest to be effective in both PvE and not overpowered in PvP then they can do the same for an arms warrior or subtlety rogue or frost mage. There's no difference.


There's a big difference actually, Frost is built around debuffs that bosses are immune to.
You can't really shatter bosses, they tried with FoF but it isn't at all the same.
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100 Troll Rogue
9120
I just wish they hadn't broken one of the rogue specs going into the expansion then spent no time working on it, while they spent a ton of time on frost pve.
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Where are these mages who are all up in arms about not being able to pve as frost?

The amount of people who are upset about non-viability of frost in PvE has be exponentially fewer than the amount of people who are upset about the absurd state of balance of frost in pvp.


Thankfully, the devs are smart enough to not design the game around a vocal pvp minority who think their little (and I do mean little) slice of the game is somehow more important than the rest of it.
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Where are these mages who are all up in arms about not being able to pve as frost?

The amount of people who are upset about non-viability of frost in PvE has be exponentially fewer than the amount of people who are upset about the absurd state of balance of frost in pvp.


We're not up in arms about being able to PvE frost, we're up in arms about them making frost PvE viable at great cost to frost PvP play style. Which is actually part of the reason frost is imbalanced right now, ice lance just shouldn't be dealing nearly as much damage as 2 second casts.

Arcane and Fire have always been primarily PvE specs, and PvP mages just had to live with that. I think PvE mages should live without frost because they've made it obvious they can't balance it in both aspects of the game.

Right now there are no well designed mage PvP specs because they wasted so much time fixing frost PvE while simultaneously breaking it in PvP.

And still, very few mages will raid frost anyway, it's still, from what I hear, lower DPS. Complete waste of good PvP design, just throwing it out for a PvE spec very few people will use anyway.






Edited by Buglamp on 11/28/2010 8:36 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Mage
9270
you realize of course frost isn't really viable PvE, it's just the best of a bad set of specs because fire and arcane are horrible

whereas frost is merely subpar

edit: buglamp, frost is actually the highest dps spec available at t11 gearing
Edited by Solweaver on 11/28/2010 8:47 AM PST
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t11 must be @85 then? We're @ t10 on live right? Seems like arcane is hands down highest on live.

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100 Troll Mage
16580
Why even bring up spec strength at live? It's only around for all of 9 more days.
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'Cause we're playing live I guess IDK.

Frost being top DPS @ 85 sounds potentially bad for PvPers, I was hoping it'd be bad like it is on live. If Blizzard decides it's a PvE spec I'm going to have a new main probably, especially since they also ruined arcane PvP.

Mage PvP looking pretty hopeless for fun factor in Cata. :[
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16 Troll Hunter
90
'Cause we're playing live I guess IDK.

Frost being top DPS @ 85 sounds potentially bad for PvPers, I was hoping it'd be bad like it is on live. If Blizzard decides it's a PvE spec I'm going to have a new main probably, especially since they also ruined arcane PvP.

Mage PvP looking pretty hopeless for fun factor in Cata. :[


yea i didnt like what i saw in 4.0.1 and beta reports, ive already got my warlock to 80
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85 Blood Elf Mage
9270
'Cause we're playing live I guess IDK.

Frost being top DPS @ 85 sounds potentially bad for PvPers, I was hoping it'd be bad like it is on live. If Blizzard decides it's a PvE spec I'm going to have a new main probably, especially since they also ruined arcane PvP.

Mage PvP looking pretty hopeless for fun factor in Cata. :[


yea i didnt like what i saw in 4.0.1 and beta reports, ive already got my warlock to 80


mhm, going to be a paladin for cata :/
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