A study: Stereotypes in the LFD

85 Night Elf Druid
11940
Love the post, and it reinforces everything I've experienced.

But - please don't forget. This time next week, level 80s will be queuing for Blackrock Caverns. And, their world will change.

Reply Quote
90 Tauren Druid
8160
I enjoyed your post. Great experiment.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
9075
On the flip side, when I queue as DPS, I pull aggro occasionally, and pull additional mobs...and hardly ever hear anything about it. Tanks usually just taunt off me, or pick up the adds without a word. Pretty odd, I know.

Since 4.0 I blame Blizzard when I lose aggro more than anyone else. I just taunt it back as much as I can and keep going.

Once we're well into Cata and losing aggro is actually fatal, I'll start shifting the blame to DPS who don't know how to manage their threat. Right now I'm cutting them slack since it's new.


Omen Threat meter ftw.
Reply Quote
Love the post, and it reinforces everything I've experienced.

But - please don't forget. This time next week, level 80s will be queuing for Blackrock Caverns. And, their world will change.


Except that BRC is actually very easy, especially in ICC gear.

If anything, I suspect we will see a bunch of "WTF Blizzard, I thought Cata was supposed to be hard" posts. At least until people get to heroics.
Edited by Cirocco on 11/30/2010 4:01 AM PST
Reply Quote
85 Human Death Knight
4925
Once as a tank, in a run where no one said anything and nothing went wrong, I initiated a Vote Kick on my friend because it would be funny. The excuse given was "I'm just screwing around."

It went through. No questions asked.


Ive seen many people do the same thing. When a vote kick goes around, I occasionally stop to ask why the people kicked them.

I think around 7/10 times, the people in the group just said they saw the box (without seeing who was being kicked and the reason), and clicked yes.

Many occasions I have arranged with my friend (the tank), when there are very high dungeon que timers to test whether people actually look to see who is being kicked.
On many occansions I have kicked my friend the tank out of the group, and then everybody starts complaining that I kicked the tank...

Let me remind you, I VOTED to kick the tank, you let it pass.


No surprises there and I think I can give you a reason. Some folks (DPS in paticular) are so scared about getting kicked, getting the debuff timer, having to wait to queue again, ect that the moment they see a vote to kick box appear they click it. The reason? If someone else got kicked then they won't get kicked.

At least that's how it was a few months ago. Been awhile since I've been in a group that had to kick someone. However I know that at the time once someone was kicked there was a cooldown timer that wouldn't let you kick anyone else. Someone on another website did something similar to this study. While I feel his research was more a pain to people than this guy's the results were a bit shocking. He'd join a heroic in various roles and then no matter how good it was going randomly pick someone and boot them. In most cases involving DPS no one would bat an eye or say anything. In cases where it was a healer/tank doing the job well people would get mad and wouldn't understand what happened....mind you these are the same people that clicked yes.

I think this test and the one in regards to kicking people speak volumes about the playerbase. In all honesty I'm hoping the guild I'm currently in manages to at the very least get 3-4 people per group for Cataclysm instances. Heroics in the final months of Wrath started to get very wearing and it wasn't because I did the content god knows how many times :-/
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Druid
9615
Once as a tank, in a run where no one said anything and nothing went wrong, I initiated a Vote Kick on my friend because it would be funny. The excuse given was "I'm just screwing around."

It went through. No questions asked.


Ive seen many people do the same thing. When a vote kick goes around, I occasionally stop to ask why the people kicked them.

I think around 7/10 times, the people in the group just said they saw the box (without seeing who was being kicked and the reason), and clicked yes.

Many occasions I have arranged with my friend (the tank), when there are very high dungeon que timers to test whether people actually look to see who is being kicked.
On many occansions I have kicked my friend the tank out of the group, and then everybody starts complaining that I kicked the tank...

Let me remind you, I VOTED to kick the tank, you let it pass.


No surprises there and I think I can give you a reason. Some folks (DPS in paticular) are so scared about getting kicked, getting the debuff timer, having to wait to queue again, ect that the moment they see a vote to kick box appear they click it. The reason? If someone else got kicked then they won't get kicked.

At least that's how it was a few months ago. Been awhile since I've been in a group that had to kick someone. However I know that at the time once someone was kicked there was a cooldown timer that wouldn't let you kick anyone else. Someone on another website did something similar to this study. While I feel his research was more a pain to people than this guy's the results were a bit shocking. He'd join a heroic in various roles and then no matter how good it was going randomly pick someone and boot them. In most cases involving DPS no one would bat an eye or say anything. In cases where it was a healer/tank doing the job well people would get mad and wouldn't understand what happened....mind you these are the same people that clicked yes.

I think this test and the one in regards to kicking people speak volumes about the playerbase. In all honesty I'm hoping the guild I'm currently in manages to at the very least get 3-4 people per group for Cataclysm instances. Heroics in the final months of Wrath started to get very wearing and it wasn't because I did the content god knows how many times :-/


I was trying to read what you were saying here, but I kept interrupting myself...BAAAHH..BAAAAHHH

People are Sheep, give em a kick button they will click it. Give em a shave his ass button they will click it.
Reply Quote
85 Troll Hunter
5185
Love the post, and it reinforces everything I've experienced.

But - please don't forget. This time next week, level 80s will be queuing for Blackrock Caverns. And, their world will change.


Except that BRC is actually very easy, especially in ICC gear.

If anything, I suspect we will see a bunch of "WTF Blizzard, I thought Cata was supposed to be hard" posts. At least until people get to heroics.
I think that for the first week, people are going to underestimate the new instances and try to run them like heroics and get roflstomped. Even in the ICC gear. And I'm going to lol from my feign. :P

But yeah, i have no doubt that they'll be a ton easier than they were in beta. But I can't wait. it's going to be nice to have to do more than sit in one spot and hit my forehead against the keyboard until my target dies.
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
10870
This will only get worse when dps has to cc/interupt regularly and the tank is no longer the end all be all of the run. Healers will run out of mana. Pulls will have to be planned.

I predict the Tank population will drop significantly.

Certainly it will decrease to an extent, if only because the bad and inflexible players in general (tanks included) won't be able to rely on wrath mechanics to carry them to victory. Also, with the way guild achievements work, if people have the option of taking sanctuary within a guild or their friends list (and probably both) then they will. For myself (I tank) I don't really intend to use the LFD tool much until down the road because I don't think my friends will let me solo queue.

You'll probably still see a "first wave" of people pushing levels that have the right skill level and attitude for overcoming the new challenges, followed by the bulk of the playerbase which I think will make it difficult to use LFD with a reasonable expectation of success for all roles. People will probably still use it, but I wouldn't want to be a DPS caught without contacts.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Death Knight
10020
As a healer:
b)
- 49 times out of 60 the tank did not realise and would go ahead and pull without me, out of those 49 times the tank died 33 times. And out of those 33 times I was blamed for it 27 times. And out of those 27 times I was kicked 19 times.
- 6 times the group including the tank waited patiently for me, often resulting in small friendly talk.
- 4 times I was removed from the group.
- 1 time I was told I needed better gear, although the tank defended me stating that I was doing the heroic FOR better gear.

This is rather scary to me. Was you OOMing yourself on purpose during this in decent/good gear or was you actually in lesser gear OOMing when you should be? You was told to get better gear but that was only once, they could had said it without even /inspecting you.

Whenever I tank a run, I will actually inspect and decide the pace of the run based on the healer if they are a pug. Slow if they are in lesser gear, faster if they are in good gear and crazy when they totally outgear the place.

However I always do start off slower than I should. Just because they have the gear, doesn't mean they know what they are doing.. lol.
Edited by Shalania on 11/30/2010 4:09 AM PST
Reply Quote
small observation I've made in running dungeons on this character since the patch that tanks attitude seems to run with their race, no RP intended here.

orcs male and female rush in and brutalize every thing in their reach before it has a chance to do much to them, often times destroying everything before dps makes much of a dent.

tauren males are a bit slower and don't tend to be as aggressive and play more defensive in their tank style.
females are motherly, especially the paladin ones lately. using their quick heal on dps or healers that took a hit during the fight.

blood elf tanks are show offs, they do a good job but they seem to like showing everyone how awesome they are at their role.

draenei I havn't ran with.

human male and female tanks are pretty solid and some how seem to manage several pulls and magically take little to no damage the whole time

dwarf tanks I've only ran with male ones. They're alot like orcs mixed with bloodelves.
Pull everything at once and kill it them selves while dps looks dumbfounded

too tired to analize anything else D:
Reply Quote
55 Undead Death Knight
100
I don't believe for a second that you ran 243 dungeons in certain personas and recorded the results.

Having said that, it is important that tanks who put themselves on a pedestal or treat the group badly are removed. Everytime a tank is inconsiderate or rude I initiate a vote to kick and it succeeds. They key is to get people less accepting of this type of tank, kick him and with a healer wait a few minutes for a new one
Reply Quote
85 Troll Hunter
5185
blood elf tanks are show offs, they do a good job but they seem to like showing everyone how awesome they are at their role.
Most belfs I run with are *%*#s. Because most of them are paladins. And somehow, being an asshat is a prerequisite for rolling a paladin. :P
Reply Quote
85 Human Priest
2320
blood elf tanks are show offs, they do a good job but they seem to like showing everyone how awesome they are at their role.

This was the only one I could relate to, but I laughed heartily.
Reply Quote
80 Gnome Mage
3935
I have PhD students who put less effort into their research. Kudos if this was real.


P.S. HREC approval number please....
Reply Quote
85 Night Elf Druid
11940
Except that BRC is actually very easy, especially in ICC gear.

If anything, I suspect we will see a bunch of "WTF Blizzard, I thought Cata was supposed to be hard" posts. At least until people get to heroics.


Yeah, been there, done that, in that gear. But, for the 80% of the players who *aren't* in ICC gear, and *are* used to faceplanting two to five packs at a time because they lucked out with a geared tank running their daily for 30g, it's not going to be the same story.

And, merry Christmas to pugs working out the strat on removing chains on the first boss and standing in the beams on the second; especially as most pug groups nowadays can't even afford to spend their precious time saying "hello" to the rest of their group. :)
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
9235
As a tank:
a)
- 28 times out of 60 the group asked me to slow down. I then proceeded to abuse the slow healer and suggested we kick him. Out of those 38 times an astonishingly 35 times the healer was kicked.
- 15 times out of 60 someone else raised the issue of the healer being slow, and the damage dealers themselves kicked the healer.
- 10 times out of 60 I was told that I was doing a great job and comments such as "I wish all tanks were like you" were thrown around.
- 4 times out of 60 the healer asked me to slow down for his mana. Out of those 4 times he was abused twice by the other members of the group to get better gear or learn to play.
- 3 times out of the 60 the healer left group without a word.

Basically the amount of time you have wait for a class is inversely related to the treatment that class then receives.

This would be a worthy statistics class assignment except for the fact that you would be causing mayhem on purpose on real servers to real people. Im pretty sure we all know what the result would have been without having to subject so many to ill treatment to illicit these results.

b)
- 33 times I was told to hurry up and abused for my gear level, comments were made on my gearscore and "get better gear" were quite common. Out of those 43 times I was never kicked.


The reason for crying foul on this post are above in bold. The fact he that he states 28 and then mistyped 33 and 35 force my skepticism meter to tilt!

The funny thing is that this isnt far off my experience in game. Maybe the not so funny part.

Seems to me DPS gets the short end of the stick. Healers get blamed for things that clearly arent their fault. Tanks, even if they completely suck, are often allowed to remain because honestly who wants to wait for another one to queue up while standing in dungeon?

Basically the treatment of any class is inversely related to the amount of time you will have wait in queue to find a replacement.

I coulda told ya that!
Edited by Machistmo on 11/30/2010 5:06 AM PST
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]