Healing hurts my brain now.

85 Human Paladin
3180
Not a QQ thread. Just sharing.

So I haven't touched this guy much since patch 4.0.1. I mostly played on my priest and druid, but guildies needed a healer for the weekly and my priest was saved so I said "Hell I'll hop on my paladin and heal." No biggie right? After redoing my talent tree from everything being reset, I put my new abilities on the hot bar and we head there.

Skipping ahead.

I went OOM halfway into the fight.../facepalm

Pallies are no longer the lolhealers spamming 2 spells and topping charts. Gotta earn your "great pally healer" title.

Priests changed, Druids changed, (don't know how much shammies changed), but pallies were put through the ringer.

Interesting new changes were made indeed. I think I'm going to play around with this guy sometime this weekend and break into holy again.

What do you other holy pallies think of the changes?
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85 Human Paladin
5745
I suspect you need more spirit and less Divine Light. I personally am very, very happy with most of the changes.
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10 Gnome Rogue
50
Shammies changed the least. Because shammies where the least broken from a design perspective. They tended to use most of their spells on most fights, instead of one spell on all fights.

All the other healing classes have been pushed to be more like that.

Spamming nothing but FoL will keep the tank up fine... until you go oom. You have to use a variety of spells.
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85 Human Paladin
3180
I suspect you need more spirit and less Divine Light. I personally am very, very happy with most of the changes.


Yea I figured. With the new patch pallies needed spirit which meant regemming EVERYTHING because before the patch we only stacked Int. Annoyed? You bet I was!
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85 Human Paladin
5745
You might also want to drop a point in Blessed Life to pick up a point in Conviction or Aura Mastery, as well as points in Crusade rather than Improved Judgement. The extra healing from Holy Shock really does make a difference, and you're unlikely to miss a Blessed Life proc given the ridiculous internal cooldown.

Also, note that Seal of Insight now gives you 15% base mana back from every judgement. More judging certainly won't hurt, and combined with Enlightened Judgements, should be the first thing you look to when you've taken damage. Heck, keep an eye out for critters to judge between pulls.
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85 Human Paladin
3180
You might also want to drop a point in Blessed Life to pick up a point in Conviction or Aura Mastery, as well as points in Crusade rather than Improved Judgement. The extra healing from Holy Shock really does make a difference, and you're unlikely to miss a Blessed Life proc given the ridiculous internal cooldown.

Also, note that Seal of Insight now gives you 15% base mana back from every judgement. More judging certainly won't hurt, and combined with Enlightened Judgements, should be the first thing you look to when you've taken damage. Heck, keep an eye out for critters to judge between pulls.


Very informative. Thank you.
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80 Dwarf Paladin
1520
So far i've only played holy in my arena set-up. I've found the changes to be very refreshing. I'm the type of player that really likes to have progression within my classes and before it felt like the skill ceiling for holy paladins was pretty short.
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90 Tauren Paladin
10930
I personally am very, very happy with most of the changes.

Me too. Holy is interesting and enjoyable now.
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10 Gnome Rogue
50

Yea I figured. With the new patch pallies needed spirit which meant regemming EVERYTHING because before the patch we only stacked Int. Annoyed? You bet I was!


int is still the #1 stat for holy
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86 Goblin Rogue
7755
It's definitely harder to heal now. If you manage your mana properly with your holy power you can still basically heal forever, it just isn't as easy to do. You can't just stand and spam anymore. Overall I'd say the new system is decent. I definitely preferred the old one more though.
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80 Dwarf Paladin
1070
I personally am very, very happy with most of the changes.

Me too. Holy is interesting and enjoyable now.

I agree, I find it a lot more enjoyable now, and actually find myself wanting to heal as a Paladin almost as much as my Shaman, he'll definitely be my second 85.
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87 Human Paladin
7150
I like having more spell choices but we need to be tweaked a bit still. It seems like they changed a few things recently, because I've noticed I'm healing a little more than before, but it's still not right. I've reforged and switched out glyphs along with changing my talent tree 5 or more times and I still haven't found a good combination where I don't go oom.
I even copied my character over to the beta server and completely changed all my gems to spirit/int gems instead of purely int and I stood around and healed as If I were in an encounter and there wasn't a big difference in mana regeneration. In the end I only changed about 3 of my gems to int/spirit.

I think the spells we have now are a good combination, but there needs to be more ways for us to regen mana. In a short encounter if I heal prudently by using the right spells for the amount of damage being taken I'm fine, but on a long encounter doing the same thing I'm oom halfway through the fight. I have no idea how things will be in end game Cataclysm encounters, but I hope the fights are slow with alot less damage where we'd have times when we don't need to cast and can regen, otherwise I don't see how a paladin can keep up.
Edited by Dewberri on 11/30/2010 2:10 PM PST
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10 Gnome Rogue
50
The bigger health pools at 85 will change things up.
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85 Human Paladin
5745
I think the spells we have now are a good combination, but there needs to be more ways for us to regen mana. In a short encounter if I heal prudently by using the right spells for the amount of damage being taken I'm fine, but on a long encounter doing the same thing I'm oom halfway through the fight. I have no idea how things will be in end game Cataclysm encounters, but I hope the fights are slow with alot less damage where we'd have times when we don't need to cast and can regen, otherwise I don't see how a paladin can keep up.


Mana potions, Divine Plea, and Judging for mana. Those are three big ones I can think of off the top of my head. Oh, that and using the right spell for the job. You may also want to invest in whatever the next level of regen flask is, and don't be shy about asking your mage friends for strudel/whatever comes next.
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10 Gnome Rogue
50
The right spell for the job will be the key.

Shaman's lesser healing wave could always keep up HPS wise, but spamming it drove you oom real quick. So you had to use all your spells to get the job done.

The designers were pleased, they exported the shaman model to all healers.

You'll get used to it. Honestly it's more fun.
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55 Undead Death Knight
100
Things are set to change at 85 so unless you played the beta you can't really make a proper judgement. From my limited beta raiding experience I must say I am quite excited. I play almost every spec of healer class and I find holy paladins and disc priests the most fun. You say druids have changed, but they really have not, their mana efficiency has decreased dramatically which changes their playstyle but that's about it.

It's really not that hard once you get used to it either. For current content, albeit a bit late, remember to keep judgements of the pure up and you can spam holy light without losing mana, it regenerates before the heal is done. Add in holy shocks/WoGs and flash of light when things get rough and they are quite powerful
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9300
Eh, I'm still mixed on things. I was a Paladin that used all my spells before (I used HL, HS, FoL, and SS all the time.) Now that things have changed, it forces you to switch around. HL is too weak to keep tanks up forever, but FoL is no longer the quick heal, mana efficient spell that it was.

...in an odd sort of way FoL is more useful than DL...which is ALMOST useless. However, due to the mana inefficiency and FoL being made so powerful, Paladins have even less potential as raid healers than before - at least before you could FoL several raid members. Now you have the cone effect LoD for that, though. Although it's Holy Power based (meaning if you have no HP, you have no group/raid healing button), and we don't have healing radiance yet to give us a group/raid heal. So we won't know until 83 if Paladins will be able to do that or not.


Paladins will likely still be relegated mostly to Tank healing, but without the super mana efficiency we had for it before. That said, with HP Word of Glories being mana free, that may make up for it some.

Realistically, DL seems kind of redundant to me. But that's just because it's not THAT much less efficient than FoL and doesn't heal for THAT much more. Also, 3 Holy Power WoG heals for close to the same amount at present. That said, if you have slow but large/sustained damage, DL is more efficient for the long run than FoL.



Basically, here's the "rotation" in a nutshell:

-Beacon tank
-HL tank (thanks to Tower of Radiance, this will build HP in a somewhat mana efficient manner.)
-HS anyone else that needs heals (and if no one needs them, either HS the tank or enemies...you should use HS on every CD to generate HP.)
-If the tank is taking high, but slow, damage, use DL.
-If the tank is taking faster damage, that's too high for HL, use FoL.
-Use WoG whenever you get 3HP if a single target needs it, else use LoD on whoever you can aim it at.
-IF you have 3 HP, use either WoG or LoD - there's no benefit to stocking HP UNLESS you know there's about to be a spike of damage and you want a powerful instant spell on standby (this is also the only reason ever to hold back on a HS instead of using it on CD.)
-Use Judgement whenever you're doing nothing else. ^_^



That's basically what I've come to so far. There's more intricacy than that...but it's more...annoying than "intelligent". I will agree that to be a good Paly healer takes some thinking now, but it's less "If you use your brain, it sets you apart!" and more "If you don't use your brain, you go OOM and everything dies. If you DO use your brain...uh...you do about the same as before."

To me, that's not really that great of a trade-off, especially since I DID use my brain before.


...I mostly blame them making FoL too potent and removal of SS (and no, the Mastery is NOT Sacred Shield.)

In the end, it doesn't reward intelligent thinking so much as it punishes FoL spamming. Overall, I'm not sure that's an improvement. Most people saying it is are just trying to sound smart/diligent.


Paly healing now is still functional, but we're still pigeonholed as tank healers, just FAR less efficient at it than we used to be. Though I'm still waiting to see how things are at 85 before I make any final judgment calls.



Note: For the record, judgment is spelled judgment, not judgement...but the in game spell is spelled judgement. ^_^;
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55 Undead Death Knight
100
Eh, I'm still mixed on things. I was a Paladin that used all my spells before (I used HL, HS, FoL, and SS all the time.) Now that things have changed, it forces you to switch around. HL is too weak to keep tanks up forever, but FoL is no longer the quick heal, mana efficient spell that it was.

...in an odd sort of way FoL is more useful than DL...which is ALMOST useless. However, due to the mana inefficiency and FoL being made so powerful, Paladins have even less potential as raid healers than before - at least before you could FoL several raid members. Now you have the cone effect LoD for that, though. Although it's Holy Power based (meaning if you have no HP, you have no group/raid healing button), and we don't have healing radiance yet to give us a group/raid heal. So we won't know until 83 if Paladins will be able to do that or not.


Paladins will likely still be relegated mostly to Tank healing, but without the super mana efficiency we had for it before. That said, with HP Word of Glories being mana free, that may make up for it some.

Realistically, DL seems kind of redundant to me. But that's just because it's not THAT much less efficient than FoL and doesn't heal for THAT much more. Also, 3 Holy Power WoG heals for close to the same amount at present. That said, if you have slow but large/sustained damage, DL is more efficient for the long run than FoL.



Basically, here's the "rotation" in a nutshell:

-Beacon tank
-HL tank (thanks to Tower of Radiance, this will build HP in a somewhat mana efficient manner.)
-HS anyone else that needs heals (and if no one needs them, either HS the tank or enemies...you should use HS on every CD to generate HP.)
-If the tank is taking high, but slow, damage, use DL.
-If the tank is taking faster damage, that's too high for HL, use FoL.
-Use WoG whenever you get 3HP if a single target needs it, else use LoD on whoever you can aim it at.
-IF you have 3 HP, use either WoG or LoD - there's no benefit to stocking HP UNLESS you know there's about to be a spike of damage and you want a powerful instant spell on standby (this is also the only reason ever to hold back on a HS instead of using it on CD.)
-Use Judgement whenever you're doing nothing else. ^_^



That's basically what I've come to so far. There's more intricacy than that...but it's more...annoying than "intelligent". I will agree that to be a good Paly healer takes some thinking now, but it's less "If you use your brain, it sets you apart!" and more "If you don't use your brain, you go OOM and everything dies. If you DO use your brain...uh...you do about the same as before."

To me, that's not really that great of a trade-off, especially since I DID use my brain before.


...I mostly blame them making FoL too potent and removal of SS (and no, the Mastery is NOT Sacred Shield.)

In the end, it doesn't reward intelligent thinking so much as it punishes FoL spamming. Overall, I'm not sure that's an improvement. Most people saying it is are just trying to sound smart/diligent.


Paly healing now is still functional, but we're still pigeonholed as tank healers, just FAR less efficient at it than we used to be. Though I'm still waiting to see how things are at 85 before I make any final judgment calls.



Note: For the record, judgment is spelled judgment, not judgement...but the in game spell is spelled judgement. ^_^;



As you admit you have not experienced healing in cata and that's what's letting you down. Holy radiance and light of dawn were ridiculously powerful, hence the famous nerf and changes. You are underestimating radiance and somewhat LoD for raid healing, these combined with holy shock/WoG combo make us great raid healer and with a beacon its all too easy. Just relax and wait until cataclysm, you will see.
Note: Either spelling is correct. Preferences depends on location

Edit: Also, I assure you DL is not useless in cata, sure it takes a bit of a backseat in WoTLK but once again, relax and wait till you start cata raiding, at this point in time damage comes to fast and in 'spiky' fashion but in cata as you have heard its steady, in stages and a longer cast time is not a problem
Edited by Xjennyxxi on 11/30/2010 3:39 PM PST
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90 Tauren Paladin
0
Not sure what you're doing different going OOM so fast. Healing is the same, if not hella easier (at least for me) thanks to Word of Glory. Healing is the same yawn fest it always is... my average gear score going into Heroics was 181 and I was just spamming Holy Light instead of Flash of Light now... with Holy Shock thrown on anyone that wasn't the MT and hitting WoG every now and then, got through no problem with about 90% of my mana at all times.
Just started playing at 4.0 after a long hiatus as well, I used to raid as a DK... so once I gear up a bit more and step into the higher end content I can see if I have the same issues as you did.
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