Dungeon Quest Experience Reduction

62 Human Hunter
360
Sunuva... I was wondering why I didn't level like crazy today.
I just did a Stratholme run and came out the same level! Blasphemy!
85 Human Paladin
0
It really doesn't. Make multiple characters, turn off your XP. There's options available. While I might be ambivalent to the dungeon quest XP change, I'd really be against further putting up more roadblocks to people who want to level faster. If you want to experience the content more, you have plenty of options in place to do so.


You're asking more than you seem to know you're asking, and are further ignoring the idea of new players who don't have the oodles of gold to put into turning XP off when they aren't meant to turn XP off just to avoid outpacing content.

There seem to be more options now to level fast than there are to level along the appropriate curve - and it's almost like it's easier to level faster than it is to level slower. In constantly trying to be the voice of reason, I'm afraid you're also selfishly not looking at others' viewpoints and why they're happy with this change.

Start a new character just to see level-appropriate content you should have seen anyway or spend 20g to do an instance? Seriously? The option to level in dungeons was always there, it's just slightly slower now.


You claim that I'm trolling you, but it feels like you're trolling me and I'm going to begin to report your threads as such if you continue. I thought we were done with this? You clearly refuse to actually read what I've posted or you'd realize how out of context and wrong your statement is. My comments weren't even about the dungeon change, they were in direct response to another comment made by a poster on a similar but different topic.
81 Orc Death Knight
4090
You claim that I'm trolling you, but it feels like you're trolling me and I'm going to begin to report your threads as such if you continue. I thought we were done with this? You clearly refuse to actually read what I've posted or you'd realize how out of context and wrong your statement is. My comments weren't even about the dungeon change, they were in direct response to another comment made by a poster on a similar but different topic.


Whenever someone shows they're pleased with this change, you jump on it and tell them they can do the awkwardly designed turn off XP tool or skip content and make a brand new character just to see content they might have missed at level 30.

I am suggesting you fail to recognize this only slightly lessens the options of someone who wants to level above the curve and gives people who wanted to level along the curve and do a dungeon once an option to do so that doesn't involve paying an amount of gold that would be insane for a lowbie.

From a design standpoint, I am also saying that leveling along the curve is what is expected of the "average" player. Why would they make brand new content that was meant to be skipped over or done while trivialized? It makes no logical sense. Which is also why I suggest this is a fix more than anything. It doesn't sound intended, and never did.

I'm still all for the options being there for people to level faster, but I think it's wrong for them to outweigh the options of the average new player. I sure do care about the plight of those impatiently (and I don't mean that in a bad way) racing to level 85. But what you're suggesting is that I and many others have to resort to something inconvenient so the people who rush can go slightly faster, when they already have tools at their disposal. And if I think that's ridiculous, then I'm selfish apparently.

You may report me, but I don't suggest it. I'm not trolling you. I disagree. There's a difference.

Edit: And no, I don't believe you're trolling, you're being sincere. But you're also being aggravatingly arrogant about your opinion, or at least you're coming across that way.
Edited by Sintus on 12/2/2010 5:51 AM PST
It's possible to level out of a region simply by doing quests and killing mobs that you need for the quests (without heirlooms or rested xp). it's not really possible to continue to quest and see all level content at level as you just level out of it given the huge quest rewards -- all without stepping into an instance.

Perhaps a user preference for xp might be helpful in the future so that the player could choose how fast they level. Perhaps something like get 25%, 50%, 75%, 100% of questing or instance bonuses. Forcing people who are wearing heirlooms (to speed up leveling their XXth toon) to slow down doesn't seem helpful.
85 Human Paladin
0
You claim that I'm trolling you, but it feels like you're trolling me and I'm going to begin to report your threads as such if you continue. I thought we were done with this? You clearly refuse to actually read what I've posted or you'd realize how out of context and wrong your statement is. My comments weren't even about the dungeon change, they were in direct response to another comment made by a poster on a similar but different topic.


Whenever someone shows they're pleased with this change, you jump on it and tell them they can do the awkwardly designed turn off XP tool or skip content and make a brand new character just to see content they might have missed at level 30.

I am suggesting you fail to recognize this only slightly lessens the options of someone who wants to level above the curve and gives people who wanted to level along the curve and do a dungeon once an option to do so that doesn't involve paying an amount of gold that would be insane for a lowbie.

From a design standpoint, I am also saying that leveling along the curve is what is expected of the "average" player. Why would they make brand new content that was meant to be skipped over or done while trivialized? It makes no logical sense. Which is also why I suggest this is a fix more than anything. It doesn't sound intended, and never did.

I'm still all for the options being there for people to level faster, but I think it's wrong for them to outweigh the options of the average new player. I sure do care about the plight of those impatiently (and I don't mean that in a bad way) racing to level 85. But what you're suggesting is that I and many others have to resort to something inconvenient so the people who rush can go slightly faster, when they already have tools at their disposal. And if I think that's ridiculous, then I'm selfish apparently.

You may report me, but I don't suggest it. I'm not trolling you. I disagree. There's a difference.

Edit: And no, I don't believe you're trolling, you're being sincere. But you're also being aggravatingly arrogant about your opinion, or at least you're coming across that way.


How do I "jump all over" exactly?. Can you please describe how this anything more than an unjustified feeling that you get when I post anything which doesn't fully, 100%, support the side that you're on?

I offer it as an alternative to people who post that there was no other way to deal with the situation before the change. This is patently untrue. There were ways to deal with it, maybe they weren't aware of them. I'm calmly, and, mind you, in as mild a manner as possible, offering them with reasonable options they had before (and after) the change. One of those options is, in fact, the option that I'm going to do (using multiple alts to explore the content) and is the cheapest and possibly the most efficient of the bunch as it allows me to get multiple characters leveling at the same time.

I have also tried to point out at several points that this does not kill dungeon leveling. However, I have not, on the whole, responded to people who simply say "I like this change" or "I dislike this change" because there's no reason to, I neither agree nor disagree, nor do I think much would be gained by arguing about such opinions. But if someone falsely says that this change kills dungeon leveling, or that there were no options available before this change to level at a more moderate pace, then they're both factually wrong and I would not have misinformation spread.

Also, the specific post you responded to was posted directly after this post:

I reckon the experience gain has to be reduced for quests outside dungeons as well. You don't have to enter an instance to find yourself well ahead of the leveling curve for a 1-60 area.


so that's what I was responding to with that particular post.

I'm ambivalent to the dungeon quest exp change. I am NOT ambivalent to a lowering of exp gains across the board.

Make it cheaper to turn off xp, hell, give -exp reducing items, but there's no reason to lower the xp on all quests, Blizzard is not likely to buff up the xp bonus to heirlooms along with it, they'll just nerf quest xp and then everyone is equally affected by it for the desires of one population, when that population already has options available to them to avoid overleveling.
Edited by Ashella on 12/2/2010 7:14 AM PST
85 Human Paladin
0
I personally like the following suggestion to help out people who want to level slower:


For the cost of 10 silver per -10% you can reduce the amount of xp you gain universally up until a total of 1 gold for no more xp (obviously this would be the new price to "shut xp off"). To restore your xp it's a simple cost of 10 silver for an added 10% up until you're back at 100%, or, normal gain.


Now, there's a specific reason I believe the burden must be placed on those who wish to level slower. I know it seems unfair, and very unintuitive, but it's based in psychological reasoning.

If you could pay to gain xp faster, instead of gaining it more slowly, the community would react in a more volatile fashion. There would be all sorts of posts complaining about how Blizzard is further separating the haves and have nots, and how they're further alienating newer players (and older players) and players who have lives, etc... etc...

Even if Blizzard cut all xp gains in half and then allowed players to purchase xp increases of up to 200% (or, thusly, back to where the xp was before) we'd see this reaction.

There would likely still be some complaining if Blizzard made a small cost, as per the suggestion I offer, to reduce xp gains, but it would be a far smaller outcry.

I like this idea also because it offers players options without taking away what many are beginning to get used to as a standard.
90 Undead Warlock
5085
The difficulty on quest did seem way to easy i hope this was due to all my alts being to high in level for the quest i was doing.
Edited by Jeanirenicus on 12/2/2010 8:22 AM PST
Okay, it took me a while, but after 19 pages I'm beginning to see what the real problems is.

The real problem is Zone Quest Achievements. These existed in Outlands and Northrend, however most people ignored them, or if they did them they found themselves in a similar position of having to skip some zones (if you do the Hellsfire Peninsula achievement and run the dungeons there, you end up leaving the zone at 65 (I was usually close to 65 so ran one or two more dungeons before leaving) and skipping straight to Nagrand (until 68 than bailing for Northrend)). But it wasn't a problem, as the people doing these quests/achievements we're already at the old max level and rushing to the new max level (thus most didn't care). The same is true with Northrend, I typically would do 3 zones from 70-80 with some dungeons thrown in. If I wanted the achievements, I went back afterward and did them.

Now with the release of 4.0.3a (the shattering), people have started leveling again, but they want to finish all the quests in the zone (thus obtain the achievement), without out-leveling the zone. It's been posted multiple times in this thread, doing all the quests in a single zone with NO HEIRLOOMS and NO RAF and NO DUNGEONS you will still out level the curve (and no don't go asking for them to nerf all XP, that's just silly, and trust me 6-12 months down the road (or maybe even sooner), most likely a choice you will regret). Than you throw in Dungeons, and I'm sure that even with this Nerf, you are still out-leveling the curve if you're doing all the quests in a zone + a dungeon. Not as much, yes, but still enough that it will create problems in the next zone.

So the real problem here is people trying to apply the "loremaster" mentality to leveling, and I'm pretty sure Blizzard's intention with leveling wasn't designed so that you couldn't move to the next zone without completing every quest in the prior zone. It's never been like that, otherwise it would have led to people grinding (as more often than not, people miss quests (which the zone quest achievement goes a long ways towards helping)), and short of Vanilla, grinding isn't something this game has leaned towards.

This change is a slippery slope, and it scares me, and it should scare the rest of you. However, that's my opinion.
Edited by Zaphon on 12/2/2010 9:14 AM PST

YOU NEVER HAD THESE QUESTS AT DUNGEON START BEFORE SHATTERING. YOU HAD TO QUEST TO GET ACCESS TO THE DUNGEON QUESTS. STOP.


Exactly, and had they nerfed this XP prior to the release of 4.0.3a, this thread wouldn't exist, as everyone would have been happy with the extra XP they're gaining over dungeons prior to 4.0.3a. However, instead they gave us this awesome way to level for 7 days than ripped it away (insert your own analogy here (aka "try giving a kid a toy for Christmas, than 7 days later take it away from him.")) so of course people are going to be upset.

P.S. Actually most of these quests existed prior, and didn't require to complete quests prior to obtaining them (yes a few did, but most didn't), they just we're spread all over the world, and thus weren't worth the time to go pickup/turn in.
Read what you said. Seriously. You are complaining about losing xp to something a lot of you have openly admitted to NOT doing. This is why you people arent getting what you want because you DONT MAKE SENSE.


Well, I disagree, so let me start with some facts. With the release of 4.0.3a, Blizzard made a change that brought pure dungeon leveling closer inline (time wise) with quest leveling. That was a positive change, by bringing the dungeon quests into the dungeons, it allowed those of us who choose to level via LFD purely in a faster way (but still slower than questing mind you), giving the player base more options on how they choose to level (someone in this thread even said Blizzard likes avoiding situations where people feel like there's only 1 way to do something (because of how much better it is) so making the different ways to level more equal made sense).

Seven days after the release of 4.0.3a, Blizzard decided to change this. They reduced the XP these dungeon quests now give by an astronomical amount (they give less XP than a level appropriate quest outside the dungeon (seriously, more XP for picking up 5 flowers and handing them to you over killing a dungeon boss?)). Yes I know that ultimately, that even with this reduction, we're gaining a little more XP than we did prior to 4.0.3a (it's not much now), which is still a positive. However, as I also said, if they had simply nerfed this prior to the release of 4.0.3a no one would be here complaining today.

Blizzard could have quite honestly avoided all this, but it wasn't an issue for anyone on Beta, and quite frankly shouldn't have been a problem for anyone on live (this just boggles my mind, in my many years of playing various MMO's, I've never once seen anyone ask for an MMO to reduce the XP rate, EVER, so this is truly a first for me)
Edited by Zaphon on 12/2/2010 9:41 AM PST
Thank you, I was a little annoyed at the incredible amount of xp i got from deadmines, as i like to balance instances and questing.
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