ISF- How to fix it

85 Tauren Warrior
1845
-Current-
Improved Soul Fire Rank 2
You increase your spell haste by 15% for 15 sec after you deal damage with Soul Fire. This effect has a 15 sec cooldown.

-New-
Improved Soul Fire Rank 2
You increase your spell haste by 15% after you deal damage with Soul Fire. This effect lasts 20 seconds and will not occur more than once every 15 seconds.

(this could use some tweaking, but the idea is to extend its duration, and give it a small, but manageable window to be able to refresh the buff.)

-Current-
Empowered Imp
Instant
Your Imp's Firebolt has a 4% chance to cause your next Soulfire spell to be instant cast within 8 sec.

-New-
Empowered Imp
Instant
Your Imp's Firebolt has a 8% chance to cause your next Soulfire Spell to be instant cast within 8 seconds for half damage.

(The concept here is to increase the frequency of how often you get a free soul fire, making keeping ISF easier to keep up, but in exchange for that increased reliability, you do less damage with SF when instant casting it from the imp proc.)

Just a couple ideas, but good ones, I think.
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85 Orc Warlock
7520
On top of this, swap the Shadowburn and ISF talent spots so Demo and Affliction aren't forced to spec ISF, adjust the DPS numbers, and I think we'd be a lot better off.
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85 Gnome Warlock
11170
I prefer the "move it to another Tier" fix so that it is only useable for Destro. Others have stated why this talent is bad to be balanced around for all specs and how it convolutes the Demo rotation and makes no sense in the affliction rotation, so I won't go into all of that...

I raided for the first time since 4.0.3a last night, 11/12 H.ICC and I found ISF to be annoying and clunky. Destro for the most part has short cast times and big nukes. It feels gross to have to cast a Soul Fire every 12-13 seconds.

Plus I noticed an annoying bug. If you are hard casting Soul Fire, and proc Empowered Imp... but the cast is far enough through that you left it finish instead of interrupting it and casting the instant one... it still consumes the Empowered Imp buff even though you hard casted the Soul Fire. Wicked annoying. Happened a lot last night... I'd be hard casting, get the proc, and try to chain the hard casted Soul Fire with the instant cast one from the buff but the buff would be consumed. This really devalues the Empowered Imp talent since it can't really be used to keep the buff up due to the internal CD of the buff, and since it can be consumed by a hard cast.

Anyway... my suggestion would be to swap Improved Soul Fire with either Aftermath or Shadowburn. Then give Affliction spells and Demonology spells back their 12% damage that they lost in the last patch when they made Improved Soul Fire no longer only work at 80% health and above.

This would be a relatively "DPS neutral" change for Demonology and Affliction, and a slight buff to Destro damage (since Destro uses Corruption and Bane of Doom which would both be doing 12% more damage). However this slight buff to Destro shouldn't be terrible since its not blowing up the meters in T11 content.

This would make Affliction and Demonology warlocks happy, and still keep the buff as being useful for the only spec that makes sense to be casting Soul Fire anyway.

Oh, and fix that Empowered Imp bug. Its annoying and devalues the talent that is "fun and insteresting", because of a talent that no educated warlock likes at all.


DK

P.S. I'd rather they just gut the talent, give us something else, and re-buff all of the trees by 12%, which would be largely DPS neutral, but since I know that isn't going to happen, I have the suggestion above instead.
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85 Orc Warlock
4925
It isnt fun in the destro rotation either.
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85 Gnome Warlock
0
There are no shortage of ideas and the Blizzard developers are quite capable of coming up with ways to fix this issue.

However, the first step to fix a problem is to admit you have one in the first place.

It's like the T11 set. It shouldn't take a lot of forum noise to instigate change. It should already be on the developer plate because they have employees in touch with the class that recognize the deficiency. They wouldn't need a lot of white noise in forums to notice.

Contrary to that philosophy it does seem that feedback and changes are directly correlated to the popularity of the class and the corresponding QQ volume on the forums that lead directly to changes or better yet, feedback from Blizzards community relations. Since that white noise and forum QQ share a typical direct correlation to class populations it certainly feels like highly populated classes get most of that response.

I wouldn't expect any rapid fix to a Warlock issue like soulstones, T11, ISF, HOG refreshes etc... I don't think we are high pop enough to be a big enough pain in the butt honestly. If you want immediate gratification I'd play one of the higher populated classes. That's pretty QQ but I believe it's true.
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85 Tauren Warrior
1845
The way to fix this is to buff lock baseline damage and make ISF only proc on Soulburned Soulfires and Emp Imp. Soulfires.

That's it.

No more hardcasting, we get a DPS CD for Soulburn, and we can all be happy.

Off topic:

Aff still needs SBolt on its mastery, and it wouldn't hurt destruction to do the same thing.


this would work too.

I am also in favor of gutting this talent completely and replacing it. Its clunky, annoying, and makes playing my warlock a chore.
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80 Tauren Druid
2295
I am really surprised this talent exists where it does. They removed the druid equivalent because it was to much haste. Even then the druid one was really only mandatory for 1 spec. ISF is needed by all and being balanced around it is a bad idea. IMO specs/damage should not be heavily balanced around the assumption of Tier 1 and 2 talents.

I would like to see T1 and 2 talents affect utility/survivability more than damage and have the higher tier talents affect damage more.
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It isnt fun in the destro rotation either.


No, but Soul Fire is bolstered by the build's mastery. It hits hard.

It works well for destruction because it helps allow us to not stack haste above all else. Destruction's mastery rules. I have no problem mixing in a Soulfire every 15 seconds.

I don't like hardcasting 4 second spells, but the spell's damage itself isn't crap like it is for Aff.



So you nerf destros' scaling for the rest of the expansion good idea. There is no fix for it they need to remove it and or change it to not give haste at all.
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90 Undead Warlock
11480
It isnt fun in the destro rotation either.


No, but Soul Fire is bolstered by the build's mastery. It hits hard.

It works well for destruction because it helps allow us to not stack haste above all else. Destruction's mastery rules. I have no problem mixing in a Soulfire every 15 seconds.

I don't like hardcasting 4 second spells, but the spell's damage itself isn't crap like it is for Aff.



So you nerf destros' scaling for the rest of the expansion good idea. There is no fix for it they need to remove it and or change it to not give haste at all.


Or they reinstate the 80% restriction and give us our damage back. It's a nice spell to use at the beginning of a fight because it shortens our ramp up time and allows us to be competitive against purely burst classes. Whether people want to believe it or not, destro is STILL a DoT heavy spec.
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85 Orc Warlock
3175
How to fix it: eliminate it and create another mechanic to spice up Destro's rotation. And, obviously, revert the damage nerfs since they exist only because no-limit ISF does.
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16 Troll Hunter
90
-Current-
Improved Soul Fire Rank 2
You increase your spell haste by 15% for 15 sec after you deal damage with Soul Fire. This effect has a 15 sec cooldown.

-New-
Improved Soul Fire Rank 2
You increase your spell haste by 15% after you deal damage with Soul Fire. This effect lasts 20 seconds and will not occur more than once every 15 seconds.

(this could use some tweaking, but the idea is to extend its duration, and give it a small, but manageable window to be able to refresh the buff.)

-Current-
Empowered Imp
Instant
Your Imp's Firebolt has a 4% chance to cause your next Soulfire spell to be instant cast within 8 sec.

-New-
Empowered Imp
Instant
Your Imp's Firebolt has a 8% chance to cause your next Soulfire Spell to be instant cast within 8 seconds for half damage.

(The concept here is to increase the frequency of how often you get a free soul fire, making keeping ISF easier to keep up, but in exchange for that increased reliability, you do less damage with SF when instant casting it from the imp proc.)

Just a couple ideas, but good ones, I think.


first off, i think your thread title is a little condescending. like the devs are all sitting there with no idea what to do. they dont discuss how they view abilities with us very often, but i guarantee they talk about it every day. sharing ideas is fine, but be tactful if you want devs to consider actually reading your suggestion.

I do think ISF feels kinda strange casting as an affliction lock, especially hard casting, considering the mastery bonus completely ignores fire damage. i dont have too much of a problem with it being a good choice for demo, because of its fire/shadow shared mastery, but i think affliction sub should be a viable alternative for a slightly different playstyle.

it seems to me tho that for the moment they wont be making any changes, but once 85 is the norm, id expect some sort of changes.

as far as your suggestion goes, i dont think that is really much of an improvement. im not entirely convinced they think every spec of warlock will have the buff up 100% of the time, because it may be better to keep your rotation going than hard cast a SF when soulburn instant SF is coming off cooldown in 5-10 sec.
Edited by Kitchwa on 12/1/2010 10:33 PM PST
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