Vampiric Embrace: The numbers

85 Blood Elf Warlock
1820
Yes. Lets forget that shadow priests can drop form and flash heal spam, OH SNAP
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85 Dwarf Priest
5875
i agree, i was healing my self for 44 hp!!!!! the other day in a BG. considering most of passive heals in other classes scale with their health, i say either do the same with shadow priest or increase the healing received by VE, our passive healing is alot less that a warlock, sur we are hybrids, but if you watched any Beta arena videos you see how fast a shadow priest gets oom only by using 4 flash heals (which is equall to 40% of our HP).

personally i doubt they change the healing of VE untill the end of S9, but take my advice and team up with a mage, both in 2s and 3s. they will carry a shadow priest easly :D and we will carry them, kinda.


Shield as a non disc priest shields around 6k. Most classes can white swing crit for that much at 85.


omg REALLY?
Edited by Shadowofdead on 11/28/2010 4:15 PM PST
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88 Orc Warrior
9400
Why did you list bloodthirst? Did you purposefully wish to compare with a fury build for pvp?
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85 Dwarf Shaman
3445
Yes. Lets forget that shadow priests can drop form and flash heal spam, OH SNAP


and oom in 10 heals.
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88 Orc Warrior
9400
Nvm, I see now you listed both dps warrior specs for some reason.
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85 Tauren Druid
6190
You're right - I must have used numbers from a previous phase of the beta or something. Although I would note (like it appears you have done) that that player is clearly experimenting with his gear, having mana jump from 90k to 105k, etc.

As for having video proof, I guess I could trawl Youtube for such things, but beta is over and I can no longer make one myself.
you are still missing my point man.

if spriest survivability is a wide spread issue, it would be evident in a significant % of the videos already posted. i am not asking you to pour through hundreds of videos for something rare here.

i'll give you a similar example. i feel defensive dispels, particularly against aff and shadow, are a major issue given that their costs are still fairly low. pretty much every beta arena video i have watched involving these two specs has had some degree of this. i could probably pick a shadow or aff video at random and have it show this.

if it's truly an issue, it should be pretty easy to find examples.
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85 Dwarf Shaman
3445
Your 'show me a video' thing is getting a bit annoying, Cihladr. There are only so many non-terrible people making pvp beta videos in the first place.

This is a chart outlying how the passive healing of a spec, which was originally about passive healing and mana return group utility, is now the worst in the game. :\
Edited by Evolute on 11/28/2010 4:20 PM PST
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85 Tauren Druid
6190
Your 'show me a video' thing is getting a bit annoying, Cihladr. There are only so many non-terrible people making pvp beta videos in the first place.
i am not asking for 2500+ rated player matches.

shoot, even if the spriest is afk during a match and happens to drop very quickly, that could be enough.

how is it annoying to ask for evidence to back up claims of low survivability? if his point is just that spriest passive healing is now lower than a few other specs, sure, he doesn't need anything to back that up besides the numbers. however, if he is trying to make a case that the spec is too weak in some area of the game as a result of this, he absolutely does need to come with something stronger than cherry picking an isolated area to make his argument.

if you disagree, i expect to have your support in my upcoming thread titled "feral has terrible control" where i compare infected wounds to crippling poison, frostbolt/CoC, and chains of ice.


This is a chart outlying how the passive healing of a spec, which was originally about passive healing and mana return group utility, is now the worst in the game. :\
it's not the worst in the game for group utility. where is the table showing passive group healing of all 30 specs? where is the table showing passive healing for all 30 specs? where is the table actually comparing specs that will be used, accounts for differences in uptime, and doesn't include active abilities that will not be up 100% of the time?

if your whole point is, 'our passive healing is lower than i would like' with no comment on how that relates to effectiveness in any area of the game, sorry for getting you off topic.

if you are trying to discuss this ability and how it relates to shadow pvp effectiveness, you need to improve your arguments.
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85 Undead Warlock
12590
I'm not so sure fury should be in that list.

But anyway, I would suspect the speed at which an individual is able to dps should directly correlate to how much self healing that spec should require.

Add a DPS column to the spreadsheet and we can better compare the need for self healing.

Edited to add: I suppose issues of escape and lack thereof might also need to be included. This could be much more complicated to discuss accurately.
Edited by Selenora on 11/28/2010 5:02 PM PST
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90 Goblin Death Knight
13815
So does this mean buff Death Strike if other classes gain about equal if not better HPS passively and a DK has to sacrifice what...80% of his dmg and utility to DS? =P
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90 Undead Warlock
12185
I seem to remember something about Devouring Plague having some kind of healing component.

Did this get changed in Cata?
Is it only on the initial cast damage?
Is it's healing just as weak?

I'm asking since the "Comment" section of the chart for SPriest doesn't specify whether it's just VE or VE and DP combined. (Provided DP does heal)
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90 Night Elf Priest
7320
- spriest healing includes VE and DP-healing
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85 Tauren Druid
6190
I love how Cihlardr pretends he knows what he is talking about. Seriously, you haven't been high rated in arena and you aren't even reasonable with anything.
i could have never pvp'd before, or even played the game before, and it wouldn't change the fact that any argument cherry picking defensive abilities and comparing them in a vacuum to try to make a comment about the defensive strength of a spec as a whole is a terrible argument.

if we disagree about comp strategy or something like that directly relating to arena tactics, sure, i will not have as strong of a pov as someone who has played at 'real' ratings.

that has nothing to do with recognizing a terrible, intentionally misleading argument.

funny how i have specifically said that i was not commenting on whether or not VE needed to be buffed, yet you still evidently feel i am attacking your class. god i love DDF sometimes.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
13230
Shadow priests have a lot more burst than other self healing classes.



Serious? The only *burst* we have at 85 is all our dots happening to tick at the same time as a mind blast hits.
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80 Orc Shaman
2450
Shadow priests have a lot more burst than other self healing classes.


dot spec
burst
does not compute

I think ppl just throw around catchy phrases on forums without actually considering if they are appropriate anymore..

On topic: VE heals for a bit more than zero at 85. You know why? Every healer has a dispel and shadows dispel protection is a joke, WHICH ENCOURAGES DR. You literally can go immune from spam dispel and also give yourself fear ward. gg!
Edited by Intoxiicated on 11/28/2010 10:06 PM PST
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85 Undead Priest
8390
Need a minor glyph that removes party healing, and bumps up VE to 18%.


this is one change that would actually make a lot of sense.
because blizzard mostly balances abilities around PVE, and VE heals party members as well,
i could see VE maybe being a bit overpowered in a PVE SETTING
however, no one cares about the group healing in a pvp situation.

therefore, the only logical solution that will keep PVE balanced while aiding our current PVP situation will be to use a glyph something like the one mentioned before.
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80 Human Rogue
3235
Need a minor glyph that removes party healing, and bumps up VE to 18%.


This is really an excellent idea. The group healing was never important in PvP, and this would be fine in PvE as well. I really like it.
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85 Night Elf Rogue
4915
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKbyIA4GVKM

Watch from 2:30-2:40.

Spriest will cast 5 spells (suspect 1 DP, 2 SW:P, 1 fear, 1 VT)

She'll go from 30k mana to 2k mana in that 10 second span.


Edit 1:
You can watch again from 3:05 to 3:34.

She'll get through maybe 2 full rotations and she's OOM again from 38.2k mana.



If we assume 90k mana (as in this video), you can expect to get maybe 4.5 full dps rotations out of a full mana bar. Given this set of circumstances, I think it's fair to say shadow priest mana efficiency needs to be overhauled in a big way.

Edit 2:
You can see the active healing problem at 6:21.

She flash heals herself twice, heals for about 20k at the cost of about 12k mana.
Edited by Paminae on 11/29/2010 12:26 AM PST
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