Why are mana drains still in this game

85 Blood Elf Priest
2620
The Druid who can use Cyclone, calls the Mana Drain OP... Sweet story.


Cyclone is far less useful than it used to be. 25 yard range and a hard cast when almost every other offensive cast is 40 yards leaves the druid very vulnerable and out from cover.

Also, Drain Mana probably could use a cast time. It was nearly impossible to prevent in WotLK when mana wasn't as much of an issue, let alone when mana matters and resil no longer affects mana drains.
i hear shifting to bear form just before the cast is done is extremely difficult.

bear form also stops the channel on drain mana.
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85 Blood Elf Priest
2620
at 85 everyone will have much more haste so the 2s cast wont be that long anymore (~1.2 s im guessing) and when mana is running low it will be a great tool against any caster.
uhm, lol, what you're smoking .... i would like to have some.

first, haste may never get as high as it is right now.

second, i don't even think it is possible to get enough haste to take a 2.5s cast down to 1.2s that would be over 100% haste which just isn't possible this side of power infusion, + lust + at least 3 other haste procs and gemming/forging all haste.


srry, made a mistake with the base cast time. 2.5 sec is correct. but, borrowed time is 14% haste, 3 % more from darkness in the shadow tree. other classes give haste such as 3% from locks or 5% from boomkins and spriests. so, thats 17% with no gear and no partners. getting another 20% shouldnt be tough. yes, since my time on the cast was off it will be more than 1.2 sec, but still will be more useful then than now.
no, right now is as fast as its going to be. it won't be until the final season of the xpac before haste levels even begin to approach what they are now.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11845
i hear shifting to bear form just before the cast is done is extremely difficult.

bear form also stops the channel on drain mana.


I hear I play more than one class. I'm not sure why you decided to make this a class battle, but if you're going to flame feel free to post on your main. If that is your main, you might not want to comment on pvp balance. First of all, notice I didn't mention Mana Burn. On every map but RoV, Mana Burn is balanced. The problem is with Drain Mana, which isn't LoSable. Bear form is only a half decent option because it costs mana to switch. On top of that, it's not even a viable option if a teammate is anywhere below 80% and you need to cast. That's how bad hot throughput is atm.

Also, I'd like to read your brilliant explanation on what a Disc Priest or Holy Pally is supposed to do against Drain Mana.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
11220
I'm sorry, it was probably me. I've been doing a lot of WSG this weekend. I didn't want to mana burn you. But you continued to holy shock WoG yourself through my 5 retarded DPS who have their stuns/silences/kicks sitting on the right side default bar and probably have never read the tooltip.

Can we still be friends?

But really as it stands right now I don't have the time/life span to mana burn you at 85. I'm ok with blizz getting rid of it. I have to admit every time I should be mana burning someone I'm like ughhhhhhhhhhhh fine IM CASTING IT OKAY FINE.

Never once was I like OO SNAP I JUST MANA BURNED THAT GUY! HEADSHOT!

Not that I've ever been like that pvping....but you get the idea.


This priest. I likes him.
Edited by Lebeau on 11/29/2010 2:03 AM PST
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85 Undead Priest
6005
Only reason I don't like mana burns/drains is because I don't like having to do it. I can dodge them, but when all I do in a game is mana burn I /yawn and stop playing. GG I've become a way to oom them YAY!
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100 Night Elf Priest
13730
Until healers start losing mana while healing, Mana burns are important, theres no way a DPS can mana burn down a healer unless its just him and a healer and all the healer does is heal himself
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80 Tauren Druid
4080
The Druid who can use Cyclone, calls the Mana Drain OP... Sweet story.


Cyclone is far less useful than it used to be. 25 yard range and a hard cast when almost every other offensive cast is 40 yards leaves the druid very vulnerable and out from cover.

Also, Drain Mana probably could use a cast time. It was nearly impossible to prevent in WotLK when mana wasn't as much of an issue, let alone when mana matters and resil no longer affects mana drains.
i hear shifting to bear form just before the cast is done is extremely difficult.

bear form also stops the channel on drain mana.


Here's my druid. You're bad and you should feel bad.I'll break this down np for you:

Bear form:1k mana
Drain mana: 10% mana over 3 seconds.
Average mana pool pre 4.0.1: 16-18k in pvp gear.

Since you will almost always be mid-global on the first tick of mana drain, you can only shift the last 2. Guess how much mana those 2 remaining drains take?


Bout 1000.

Now fast forward to Cata pvp and I'm sure it will be the same issue all over again. Not to mention that the other 3 healers don't have a magic shift mechanic that removes it completely. If you could get over your druid hate (probably not, but really who cares about someone that bashes on a class based on past season performance), we might be able to get rid of mana drains as a whole since it really is just one more unfair mechanic to push onto healers.

Edit- Oh, and it's generally a bad idea to talk down to people when you have no noteworthy pvp accomplishments.
Edited by Getonmyhorse on 11/29/2010 9:01 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Priest
4400
srry, made a mistake with the base cast time. 2.5 sec is correct. but, borrowed time is 14% haste, 3 % more from darkness in the shadow tree. other classes give haste such as 3% from locks or 5% from boomkins and spriests. so, thats 17% with no gear and no partners. getting another 20% shouldnt be tough. yes, since my time on the cast was off it will be more than 1.2 sec, but still will be more useful then than now.


As has been said already, we have haste now e.g. I am running with about 30% in pvp gear, we will have less at 85 due to reduced amounts of haste candy being handed out, as well as desiring to stack spirit/int more, therefore manaburn will be becoming slower not faster.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
10315
Also, I'd like to read your brilliant explanation on what a Disc Priest or Holy Pally is supposed to do against Drain Mana.


unless something changed, we can dispel it.


Actually everyone can dispel it now, but it is generally covered with UA, which would mean one would gamble on getting mana drain instead of UA (just speaking of paladin and priest options).
Edited by Bnizzle on 11/29/2010 9:44 AM PST
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90 Night Elf Druid
11845


unless something changed, we can dispel it.


Actually everyone can dispel it now, but it is generally covered with UA, which would mean one would gamble on getting mana drain instead of UA (just speaking of paladin and priest options).


This. Also, you're wasting a global and 16% of base mana (over half a FH) to dispel Drain Mana which can be put right back up if you're not already out of LoS.

they can stand still and lol at the poor warlock trying to cast a drain mana while the melee train of a warrior+dk smash his face?


So your solution for Drain Mana being OP is to exclusively play cleaves which can train the lock?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
6500
Mana drains are fine

Priests and Druids have other problems that need fixed, such as susceptibility to offensive dispels

Also, every priest who is like "uuuuugh I hate mana burning" needs to shut up. Mana burning is the cheesiest and most amusing thing I've ever done on my priest outside of mind controlling people off of things. You have a ton of control because your target is running scared from your cast bar. ITS FUN. Glad that got cleared up.


Sorry but I think you're in a minority. Most priests did not roll a priest to spam mana burn all day. It's also funny how you say it's fine then laugh about watching people flee from your cast bar.

To the people who talk about haste, with the changes to resilience it is far easier to drain someone's entire mana bar than it use to be, even with a slower cast, even at 80 when mana costs of their spells haven't ramped up yet. At 85, people are already going to be spending a lot of mana in PvP, draining them the rest of the way down won't require you to get as many off.

Mana drains do not add anything good to this game. They are not needed by any stretch of the imagination in cataclysm. If you didn't have the opportunity to PvP in beta I can tell you that healer regen in PvP gear is laughable at best. Add onto that all the other ways there are to counter healers; I mean how many stuns, silences and interrupts are there now in this game? How long do they all last now without any of our anti-cc talents? What % of someone's cata health pool am I able to hit with even my biggest heal in cata? How well does damage still scale with level? Yeah, mana drains are not needed.

As far as comments about dispel go, I do agree that the power of offensive dispels is crippling, especially to druids. While it's probably true that's a bigger issue than mana drains for that class, that also is because druids are the least susceptible to mana drains and have the most powerful counter to them (shape shifting). I don't see how that's really relevant to the discussion of mana drains though, it doesn't have to be a, "well this problem is bigger for me so fix this first" issue, they're both significant issues that need to be addressed. In the case of dispels it's particularly a problem since they removed anti-dispels to solve the so called "arms-race" but at the same time enh shaman and mages with mage armor up can spam their dispels all day long unchecked even at 85. Dispels are supposed to require thought now due to cost, they do not require thought at all in some cases even at 85.
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90 Human Priest
6245
Just kill the Priest before the Mana Burn finishes casting, it's not exactly hard right now.
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85 Undead Priest
6340
1st. mana burn is a 2.5 second cast now
2nd. if we're burning, we're not healing.
3rd. range us, LoS us, interrupt us, put dps on us (pushback)
4th. mana burn is a 2.5 second cast now
5th. mana burn burns the priest as well

EDIT: priests are the most susceptible healing class to a priests mana burn... go figure.

Edited by Reckyo on 11/29/2010 10:54 AM PST
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90 Human Priest
6245
1st. mana burn is a 2.5 second cast now
2nd. if we're burning, we're not healing.
3rd. range us, LoS us, interrupt us, put dps on us (pushback)
4th. mana burn is a 2.5 second cast now
5th. mana burn burns the priest as well

EDIT: priests are the most susceptible healing class to a priests mana burn... go figure.


I haven't looked at the numbers recently, but does the Priest still end up at a net loss of mana if they don't use Power Infusion to lower the cost on Mana Burn?
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90 Night Elf Druid
11845
The net mana differential on mana burn is larger than it used to be, by far, at 85.

Why are people still commenting on mana burn though? The problems with Drain Mana are still the primary issue. It was annoying as hell to deal with in LK, let alone in Cata with larger mana bars, no resil protection and lower regen.
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85 Undead Priest
6340
The net mana differential on mana burn is larger than it used to be, by far, at 85.

Why are people still commenting on mana burn though? The problems with Drain Mana are still the primary issue. It was annoying as hell to deal with in LK, let alone in Cata with larger mana bars, no resil protection and lower regen.


The reason they're still in play (however useless they are) is because what some refer to as strategy or tactics... Ever heard of them?

It's so you might have to do something besides load up your partner with hots > los drink or smeld drink.
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90 Night Elf Druid
11845
The resentment against druids on these forums is astounding. If you've pvped on beta you'd know that druids are right next to priests in terms of viability in 3v3 and up. Druids are marginally better because we can still travel form, that's about it. Top teams like Hoodrych's WLD are already talking about dropping their Druid for a Pally, and they're the least FotM team of all (they've ran WLD rain or shine).

An instant drain that isn't LoSable or forces a shapeshift/dispel leaves a healer (any healer) a global behind constantly while the other dps has free rein. If you don't see a problem with that, I don't know what to tell you.
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