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Similarly Smoke Bomb is pretty awesome, only its use extends to PVE. Rogues become a tanks' best friend for trickier pulls, or for grabbing those loose casters.

How could you possibly see smoke bomb and only think pve?

I think it's gonna be sweet to smoke bomb while you're on a healer and have your mage ring of frost the outside so the dps can't come in to peel. Makes rogue/mage synergy even stronger. But even without the mage, 10 seconds of not being peeled can score you kills.

As a feral druid, i'd kill to get those 3 abilities

You don't know how good rogues have it for 81-85 abilities

Of all the thinks to complain about rogues, you chose this?

Trust me, even redirect is more useful that all 3 of our abilities combined, at least for feral

Rogues have never gotten another rotational ability that wasn't a replacement for something that was already there. I know Blizzard doesn't want any class to be totally GCD capped, but as it is, without bloodlust or BiS gear we happen to have a rather significant amount of time of doing nothing.

We definitely have room for more non-gimmicky CDs that will be placed on the far right/top hotbars, like how about an intercept or feral swiftness clone for combat, since its not even worth stealthing in PvE for it? Or, a steady shot clone that generates energy, but would be a DPS loss to use if you have the energy to use something else?

Or, if we keep getting CDs, how about making them work on a potion basis, one minute CD, starts as soon as you use it, but not useable again until 10 seconds out of combat?

I think Redirect was because they were like "What else can we give rogues?". That's the only thing that came to mind.

-We don't need anymore baseline mobility. If Assassination needs it, it should be put into the tree.
-We don't need any more defensive cooldowns.
-We don't want more buttons to press.

We need more damage though, but how can that be a 81pt that isn't a new button?
Not sure. Maybe "Find Weakness" should become baseline.
81pt "Assassins Guile:<insert Find Weakness text>". Or something.
It's not like Assassination will benefit much from ArPen. Combat needs anything it can get...

Now to think of a new talent. Ah....... Hmmm.... I don't know, I've suggested many things before and rather not bring up old ideas. :|

Simple, there are things you train that are passives. Like I said, redirect could've been a passive that just puts combo points on rogues.

Smokebomb just seems like another harmful view blocker or something you use during buff period to piss people off while looking for the fish feast.

As a feral druid, i'd kill to get those 3 abilities
You don't know how good rogues have it for 81-85 abilities
Of all the thinks to complain about rogues, you chose this?
Trust me, even redirect is more useful that all 3 of our abilities combined, at least for feral

Well, yah. Mine is useless no matter what spec I am.
Thrash will be awesome for AE tanking.
Stampeding Roar is another sprint. (That's all druids need! More mobility!)
Wild Mushroom will be good for both Boomkin and Resto. Being able to set traps that blow up when you want them too, how cool is that? I bet hunters wish they could have that kind of control over their traps.
As a Feral druid, I can guarantee you will be using the Roar and Thrash. Thrash will be great in group pvp as well as tanking. So, yah. Sure you wont be using Wild Mushroom. So what? Boomkins and Restos will.
More useful than your three abilities combined... Come on lol. You can't be serious... Some people....

Simple, there are things you train that are passives. Like I said, redirect could've been a passive that just puts combo points on rogues.

I know, but they wont do that. I'd love for it to happen. But, I just can see them doing it.
Even though it would make so much sense and wouldn't be overpowered at all, I still highly doubt it happening. :|

-Stampede is slower than our regular run speed in cat form, it's range is godawful, it doesn't last long enough.
-With the removal of periodic crits procing savage defense, thrash is just swipe 2.0. And it's not like this helps our aoe threat generation, as they completely broke swipe. At best it's a wash, but it's most likely we're actually going to do less aoe threat, even with a second aoe ability.
-The current implementation of wild mushroom makes them completely useless for anything but the snare, and even that is more difficult to use than any other snare in the game. These used to be good early beta, but have since been nerfed to the point where they're not even worth using.

Still wanna trade?

-Stampede is slower than our regular run speed in cat form, it's range is godawful, it doesn't last long enough.
-With the removal of periodic crits procing savage defense, thrash is just swipe 2.0. And it's not like this helps our aoe threat generation, as they completely broke swipe. At best it's a wash, but it's most likely we're actually going to do less aoe threat, even with a second aoe ability.
-The current implementation of wild mushroom makes them completely useless for anything but the snare, and even that is more difficult to use than any other snare in the game. These used to be good early beta, but have since been nerfed to the point where they're not even worth using.

Still wanna trade?

Like the title post said, don't bring outside class issues in here. If you don't like yours I'd say make a thread on it.

I do see your side of it though. Sucks for ya =(

I think redirect is fine (except for Combat), as well as smoke bomb and especially combat readiness.

Redirect - Useful in PvE and PvP, Cooldown for Combat needs to be lowered somehow to transfer Bandit's Guile more easily, otherwise solid ability.

Smoke bomb - Extremely useful in PvP and maybe sometimes in PvE if an encounter doesn't ignore it. Probably works on trash?

Combat Readiness - Very useful in PvP against melee and useful in PvE encounters where you are subject to taking melee damage. In cata raid healing is way down so this + evasion + recuperate + safe fall + cloak + feint + more armor if Combat/Deadened Nerves ifAssass/Enveloping Shadows if Sub mean rogues are damn good at avoiding damage and helping healers out. We have a tool for every situation.

Because this is the PvP BG x-pac.

I think redirect is fine (except for Combat), as well as smoke bomb and especially combat readiness.

Redirect - Useful in PvE and PvP, Cooldown for Combat needs to be lowered somehow to transfer Bandit's Guile more easily, otherwise solid ability.

Smoke bomb - Extremely useful in PvP and maybe sometimes in PvE if an encounter doesn't ignore it. Probably works on trash?

Combat Readiness - Very useful in PvP against melee and useful in PvE encounters where you are subject to taking melee damage. In cata raid healing is way down so this + evasion + recuperate + safe fall + cloak + feint + more armor if Combat/Deadened Nerves ifAssass/Enveloping Shadows if Sub mean rogues are damn good at avoiding damage and helping healers out. We have a tool for every situation.

In nearly every encounter to date if you are taking direct melee damage you're doing something wrong. The only time combat readiness would be useful is if you are avoiding a wipe while another tank picks up where the last one takes off or adds. Both situations are too situational to get an entire new baseline skill added to address it and we already had ways to deal with it.
It's wonderful for PVP which I've already addressed, useless to many of us who don't care for it.

Smokebomb: I simply cannot think of a place where in the last 2 expansions raids that I'd use it.

Why don't we get anything we can use in a raid?

Because in a raid, you're only (mostly) there to deal damage, which severely limits the devs' options in what they can give that you don't already have:

1. A new rotational move - they technically already did this with Backstab in Assassination, Revealing Strike in Combat and multiple changes in Subtlety. Setting that aside, you can only add so many buttons to a rotation before it gets too complex to deal with, and they probably didn't want to do that.

2. A new cooldown - again, they technically already did something like this with Vendetta. If it's not something you use multiple times a minute, then it's something with a cooldown that's within 1-3 minutes. Like a new rotational button, there's only so many ways you can pull this and still keep it interesting.

3. A new damage-dealing niche - Rogues did get Fan of Knives in a previous expansion, so is there any specific kind of DPS that they're still lacking? Outside of giving you guys ... auto-throw, it seems like you have all the raid-DPS bases covered.

That's why your new abilities are almost exclusively PvP-related.

I see a lot of PVE viability out of redirect. Valks on LK come to mind, and many ICC bosses had set adds at certain time iterations. I'm sure that pattern will continue. If they made the ability passive then you'd have less to do. You might as well ask the Devs to make your rogue passively fight for you at some point.

Smoke bomb is neat and may have a wide variety of uses, though I agree, they probably won't let it work on raid bosses. I suppose we'll find out it's limits.

Combat readiness is the only one I see little pve use. The clincher is the requirement that you must keep getting hit every 6 seconds. I may take some occasional AOE dmg, but how often are you offtanking a mob? Seems verrrrrrrry situational. More of a PvP skill in my opinion.

Transferring combo points is only as powerful as your finishers, and Rogue finishers aren't that powerful relative to the rest of our abilities.

Ergo, Redirect isn't really that great, and is more or less summarized as "ehhh I can see how it would be good," which isn't good enough.

Smoke bomb is neat and may have a wide variety of uses, though I agree, they probably won't let it work on raid bosses. I suppose we'll find out it's limits.

Imagine for a second Smokebomb on say Putricide, None of the slimes could target someone. For it to be truly useful it'd be too powerful and anything less is useless.

The skills are as a whole lackluster and uninspired. Smokebomb is cool but just another gimmick. I'd like something that grows the class. I picture using smokebomb as much as I use distract and in the same functionality, to annoy.

It's like Wound poison all over again. Our big new ability, nerfed into uselessness only this time it was never exciting.

Posted this in the rogue forum but that's a dead end so I'll post it here.
*Disclaimer I haven't looked at other class skill, they could be equally as terrible in which case, make your own thread I don't care about other classes so far as this thread is concerned.

Combat Readiness: A slightly improved version of the old parry talent. Only viable use is pvp. I cannot see this being helpful in a raid situation.

Redirect: This is terrible. Once a minute rogues can be as good at switching targets as every other class in the game except that we have to use this stupid spell first. Which I guess would require that we still have these combo points up on an old target before it disappears. Only application I can see is again pvp.

Smoke Bomb Another pvp talent. This can't be useful in a raid instance. I don't see a Boss being unable to target a player just because of this talent. It's a nifty trick I guess but that's all it is. I don't see it being of any use anywhere else but in a pvp situation and even then it's situational at best.

Why don't we get anything we can use in a raid? This game too far gone up it's own esport hole it's lost sight of the actual game :/

Have you seen the DK spells? They get Outbreak (basically Redirect) and 2 PvP spells.

Redirect useful but CD is way way to long. 15-20 seconds makes it a tool for the attentive rogue.

Combat readiness might be the worst recreation of a crappy talent ever. Still does nothing for spells, still does nothing to prevent CC and not lasting the full duration unless you are being beaten on makes it absolute garbage, BG heroes approve of this talent for midfield zergs however.

Smoke bomb I will not comment on until I have been able to use it excessively, although with the CD and duration, my hopes are starting out low.

In a post on the Cata forums by Rakez from Paragon (eu) on his experience with the new rogue abilities in Beta:

The 3 new cooldowns we got this expansion haven't seen much use outside of heroics. I don't think I've seen a single good situation where using smoke bomb for anything other than the visual effect would have been useful or helped someone stay alive during a raid encounter. Same goes for combat readiness as it only procs from enemy weapon strikes which I rarely take in during bosses, the ability seems decent in heroics though when you manage to pull aggro or need to tank some smaller mobs for a while.

Redirect is the most useful one of the new cooldowns, yet I feel I would do just as well without it. Having it up once every minute is just too seldom for the marginal benefit it gives.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=27508585022&sid=2000

I'm not in beta so I haven't had a chance to try out the new abilities myself but this is pretty much what I anticipated from the skill descriptions.

In nearly every encounter to date if you are taking direct melee damage you're doing something wrong. The only time combat readiness would be useful is if you are avoiding a wipe while another tank picks up where the last one takes off or adds. Both situations are too situational to get an entire new baseline skill added to address it and we already had ways to deal with it.
It's wonderful for PVP which I've already addressed, useless to many of us who don't care for it.

Smokebomb: I simply cannot think of a place where in the last 2 expansions raids that I'd use it.

Lord Marrowgar is one fight where you take melee aoe damage. Sure it's avoidable to some extent but if such a fight existed in Cata where healers simply couldn't heal you through it then a rogue could pop evasion and then combat readiness/feint for consecutive whirlwinds and stay on the boss.

For smokebomb... say a fight such as ldw that randomly targets a player and casts frostbolt. If that frostbolt hit someone for a good chunk and that someone had taken damage earlier from something then you could pop a smokebomb on said person and eliminate them from the bosses target list. Not saying there will be many(if any) fights like this but it has some potential.

Now these situations are limited at best, but we already have a TON of tools to avoid taking damage, not complaining about getting more.

And as someone said earlier, we have a tool for every DPS situation in PvE now save ranged dps. They also shook up the rotations a bit with Sub and Assass (Combat addded RvS, Rupture, RB, and BG but apparently its a 2% damage loss to drop RvS and Rupture form rotation), as well as giving Assass a cooldown in Vendetta and an updated coldblood.

I think the biggest issue right now is getting redirect's cooldown lowered for Combat somehow.