Why are 81+ Rogue skills so bad?

58 Undead Death Knight
550

Have you seen the DK spells? They get Outbreak (basically Redirect) and 2 PvP spells.


You quote my post which would indicate that you read it yet ignore the part where I said the thread is about rogue abilities not vs any other class. I am not comparing these abilities to those of other classes I'm addressing the fact that we got 3 pvp skills that do pretty much nothing for us pvers.

I'm talking about the fact that if these are skills that are designed to make me want to play a rogue from level 80 to 85 then they fail, hard. They are boring and unattractive.

Yes other classes got screwed but you have a "New Thread" button to address that.
Go use it.
Edited by Toothdk on 11/30/2010 1:52 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
-Stampede is slower than our regular run speed in cat form, it's range is godawful, it doesn't last long enough.
-With the removal of periodic crits procing savage defense, thrash is just swipe 2.0. And it's not like this helps our aoe threat generation, as they completely broke swipe. At best it's a wash, but it's most likely we're actually going to do less aoe threat, even with a second aoe ability.
-The current implementation of wild mushroom makes them completely useless for anything but the snare, and even that is more difficult to use than any other snare in the game. These used to be good early beta, but have since been nerfed to the point where they're not even worth using.
Still wanna trade?


oh god this.


I already said many things. You will still use them! I guarantee you will. Rogues will not be using Redirect.
Do you understand the difference?
Obviously, if you use the ability, it isn't useless because you are using it.
How many times should I repeat this till you people understand?
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
if you can't think of ways to use redirect i just don't know what to tell you, it's useful for essentially any target swap in pve and pvp. you are telling me you won't use it? hell, as a feral i'd use that all over the place.
now, i will find situational uses for stampeding roar, it's just going to likely fail, as it only has a 10yrd range, and i guarantee that the baddie that needs the boost will be out of range 9 out of 10 times.
i will find uses for mushrooms, in fact i can think of *1*. i'll put them on flags in AB to use as a fallback cap prevent. still trying to figure out another use for a long setup move that hits for noodles (as feral) with a 3yrd aoe.
thrash will be used by bear tanks, so i suppose i'll give you that one.
i'd still trade in a heartbeat.

In pvp, it's got one good use. Kidney Shot.
In pve, I will never use it. On bosses, there is one target. On trash, it's trash. It will die quickly anyways. How will switching 1-5 combo points make it better. Besides, I will be using spare combo points when a target dies to refresh Slice and Dice or Recuperate...
Edited by Knocrogue on 11/30/2010 2:44 PM PST
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90 Undead Rogue
13680
you will use this ability, and good rogues will use it to great effect.

The difference between using Redirect in PvE and not using it will be infinitesimal. Certainly not warranting the 1min cooldown that it has. Sweet, an extra Evis/Envenom on a target switch once every minute. The relief knows no bounds.

Don't kid yourself. It's a PvP ability. To state that it has any measurable worth in PvE outside of the 1000:1 chance that it'll actually make a difference is idiocy.
Edited by Kanoi on 11/30/2010 3:11 PM PST
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90 Tauren Hunter
9610
Hunters get aspect twisting in PvE and the uselessness of camo woohoo! Also, BM and survival have to wait until 81 to get a core rotational ability, rofl.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
14810
I just wanted frickin Grappling Hooks.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
pvp: kidney shot is the obvious one, sure. but how about this, you are fighting someone and someone else on your team gets a healer nearby low. so you redirect > SS > evis and finish him off.

or you see a rogue pop up on your healer, so you redirect to a rupture on him before he can get clear.

or hell, just a drive by focus gauge on a healer for CC, now you can bring that combo point (or 2) to your current target.

and that's leaving out the myriad situations in which a redirect > kidney will be *awesome*.

pve: some fights have adds, you know? frequently adds that need to be burned asap. assuming you have recup and SnD up (as a good rogue should), well, you just bring your 5cbs with you into an evis / envenom to help burst down the add asap.

you will use this ability, and good rogues will use it to great effect.

you will use smokebomb. it'll be awesome in a bunch of pvp situations, and it may be one of the best counters to ranged dps in rated BG play.

combat readiness is a beastly survival CD that'll probably get used on CD or close to it in pvp.

i'd still trade straight up in a heartbeat.


I still don't think you understand.
I don't care about Combat Readiness or Smoke Bomb. Those are fine. My problem is Redirect.

You know, in pvp, Eviscerate hits just as hard as Backstab. So, no. It's not worth using combo points for ANY finisher except Kidney Shot.
Edit: Someone is going to take this out of context. I mean with Redirect, any other Finisher is worthless** :)
In pve, sure some fights have adds. But, like I said. I will be using it to refresh stuff.
"Oh boy, having to use another cooldown just to switch some combo points to get a weak finisher off! Yay!" Pretty much about it. Finishers suck. It's not worth using a cooldown to switch to a new target.
Redirect adds 0 damage increase.
And the only utility is Kidney Shot.
That's it.

I just wanted frickin Grappling Hooks.


I know! That would be so sick. We would be the second class to have a death grip. Not bad if you ask me.
Edited by Knocrogue on 11/30/2010 3:21 PM PST
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36 Troll Druid
280
i liked the disclaimer.


but my goblin rogue will be a pvp toon at max level, so i'm cool with the abilities.

i would also accept any prorogue tweaks the devs felt like administering.
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90 Undead Rogue
13680
you will use this ability, and good rogues will use it to great effect.

The difference between using Redirect in PvE and not using it will be infinitesimal. Certainly not warranting the 1min cooldown that it has. Sweet, an extra Evis/Envenom on a target switch once every minute. The relief knows no bounds.

that sounds just about perfect for PP adds, doesn't it?

To state that it has any measurable worth in PvE outside of the 1000:1 chance that it'll actually make a difference is idiocy.
Edited by Kanoi on 11/30/2010 3:27 PM PST
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85 Gnome Rogue
12090

You know, in pvp, Eviscerate hits just as hard as Backstab. So, no. It's not worth using combo points for ANY finisher except Kidney Shot.


Eviscerate also costs only half the energy of Backstab.

Or, if you're a smart Rogue and have specced Relentless Strikes like Every Good Rogue, it costs roughly 1/6th of what Backstab costs.

Now, I don't know about you, but last I checked, in both PVE and PVP, energy was a much more precious resource for us than GCD's. It's why we can have a 1 second GCD and nobody gives a #@!@ - because practically, we can't actually use that to chain abilities 1 second apart from each other for more than 2-3 seconds outside of cooldowns.

As for Redirect in PVE? Not every skill is useful to every spec. It's absolutely invaluable for Combat, and it's mildly handy for Sub/Assassination depending on the fight. For what it's worth, you'll need to make hard target swaps on 10 of the initial 13 raid bosses.
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