All melee need an instant gap closer

85 Dwarf Paladin
4985
It's pretty apparent the devs have gone out of their way to ensure you do NOT have an instant teleport to target.

I suppose you could argue which of your current turbo / snare removals you'd like to *trade* for a teleport, but I doubt they'd entertain the thought at this point.


I'd trade self cleanse and bubble for an instant gap closer and a more reliable defense. That would not give us ridiculously high mobility, and would help with our squishiness.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
4985

How? You are comparing two entirely different things. It is like saying flash of light is better than bladestorm.

At least compare gw to laotl and cleanse to frost shock/earth totem.


Yeah ^.
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100 Human Paladin
12905

it wont reset the fight at 85, you wont be able to heal to full. just throwing that out there.

the strat is usually train the ret till he bubbles, then finish him. and most teams have a warrior or priest so bubble is actually not as strong as you may think..


I wonder how people can still call DS the best defensive cooldown in the game when AMS has been around for 2 years.


An 8 second complete immunity vs a 5 second 75% reduction against magic only?


an 8 second complete immunity that NEVER lasts 8 seconds in competitive play.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
4985

it wont reset the fight at 85, you wont be able to heal to full. just throwing that out there.

the strat is usually train the ret till he bubbles, then finish him. and most teams have a warrior or priest so bubble is actually not as strong as you may think..


I wonder how people can still call DS the best defensive cooldown in the game when AMS has been around for 2 years.


An 8 second complete immunity vs a 5 second 75% reduction against magic only?


Well, old AMS was a lot better that's true. Now it's more like a glorified DP. It's cooldown still makes it a lot more useful than DS, imo.
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85 Troll Shaman
6490
There, iv'e said it. It just needs to be done.

Previously, it was okay for melee to not have an instant gap closer because casters had to sit still and cast. Now, with their instants doing as much as our instants, but with a 40 yard range, the melee specs without an instant gap closer are struggling.

A caster is allowed 100% "uptime" on their targets. In other words, they can pretty much deal damage to their chosen target 100% of the time. meanwhile i consider myself lucky if i hit a mage with crusader strike.


I am an Elemental shaman, please explain how the hell this statement is true?
Edited by Okaithul on 11/30/2010 7:37 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7235
I'm not going to try and gauge the power of melee vs caster, however what I do know is that casters have a much easier time getting and staying away from melee than melee do getting to/staying on the ranged, with the exception of warriors.


This was my original point and this is what i wanted to discuss. instead it turned into a flame war about how pallys have OP abilities. I suppose next time i wont post on my paladin.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
4985
I'm not going to try and gauge the power of melee vs caster, however what I do know is that casters have a much easier time getting and staying away from melee than melee do getting to/staying on the ranged, with the exception of warriors.


This was my original point and this is what i wanted to discuss. instead it turned into a flame war about how pallys have OP abilities. I suppose next time i wont post on my paladin.


That's usually safer, yes. :(
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84 Dwarf Death Knight
7735
... stop demanding an ability that you don't have just because you want it


I feel like this is probably the most appropriate statement. If the grass looks greener to you, play that class. Leveling takes about a week, and then you'll see that there are drawbacks as well, just like every single other class or spec that might look appealing.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7235
There, iv'e said it. It just needs to be done.

Previously, it was okay for melee to not have an instant gap closer because casters had to sit still and cast. Now, with their instants doing as much as our instants, but with a 40 yard range, the melee specs without an instant gap closer are struggling.

A caster is allowed 100% "uptime" on their targets. In other words, they can pretty much deal damage to their chosen target 100% of the time. meanwhile i consider myself lucky if i hit a mage with crusader strike.


I am an Elemental shaman, please explain how the hell this statement is true?


are you trying to say elemental is bad? i dont know how your statement relates to the previous one.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7235
... stop demanding an ability that you don't have just because you want it


I feel like this is probably the most appropriate statement. If the grass looks greener to you, play that class. Leveling takes about a week, and then you'll see that there are drawbacks as well, just like every single other class or spec that might look appealing.


but i wasnt saying only ret needs a gap closer i was saying ALL melee need a gap closer because then need to be in melee range to deal damage. this thread turned into a flame war amongst other melee and ret and it was about all melee in general.

this was a melee vs caster kinda thing. not this is what i want, gimme gimme.
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85 Human Mage
1950
When i first hit 80 on this toon a few weeks ago, i was decked out in full 78-80 blue pvp gear, and was specced frost. Even in the worst gear imaginable, most melee wasnt that difficult to defeat, it just took a bit longer. And in group situations (where i wasnt alone) with 40 yard range, I either stayed behind my teammates, and when i did get targeted, it was insanely easy to stop the opponent(s) from moving/chasing me and extremely easy for me to get away.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7235
When i first hit 80 on this toon a few weeks ago, i was decked out in full 78-80 blue pvp gear, and was specced frost. Even in the worst gear imaginable, most melee wasnt that difficult to defeat, it just took a bit longer. And in group situations (where i wasnt alone) with 40 yard range, I either stayed behind my teammates, and when i did get targeted, it was insanely easy to stop the opponent(s) from moving/chasing me and extremely easy for me to get away.



are you trying to say elemental is bad? i dont know how your statement relates to the previous one.


He's saying that Elemental still has to stand still and cast to do basically all it's damage. They are not frost mages or warlocks.


but elemental is a great spec, probably one of my favorite casters to play. Melee specs such as enhance or ret gaining an instant gapcloser will not cause great elemental shamans to suddenly be bad.
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80 Human Death Knight
4450
DK: Death grip doesn't work on bosses unless you want to die, but we have a few spells under our belt to help out.

Feral Druid: Feral druids get Feral Charge, which is the most awesome thing ever. It can also give you a free Ravage if specced into stampede.

Retribution Paladin: Long Arm of the Law. Amazing.

Warrior: Duh

Rogues: Sprint if you are impatient. Stealth allows them to get in position before most players.

Enhancement Shaman: I just have no idea.

Comparing uptime to casters, you have to consider our advantage of being able to use most of our abilities while moving. Caster damage can be toasted if there's too much movement going on.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8240
I vote we go with the make all casters spells slapped with wet noodle. By far the best argument I've seen on any forum.

If I get 3 secs of my bubble in a BG, I feel thrilled. Stop acting like bubbling is the end-all melee ability. It's a very strategic move now that doesn't have the payoff everyone QQ's about. Everyone says it's so OP, but not a single class would trade our bubble for one of their abilities. It's proven, and we get to pick, not your worst ability either. After all, our bubble is game ending, right?

Spam casting requires not moving. The issue is mobility. Stop comparing the two, when after the first cast, I get locked out of my tree for a few seconds from someone's counterspell or bash. Now I'm back to square one of not being able to catch up to anyone, but at least before I had the option of getting locked out from spamming Exo. Now I'm just a target dummy to dispell while I do the chicken dance. And I do the chicken dance better than anyone. This is why I'm the Uberpally.

Cleanse did help, a lot. Spamming cleanse is fun. Now I get closer, but not quite there yet or oom when I do.

Seal and judgment of Justice, go reread how those work. You've completely misunderstood the entire mechanics of those abilities. They sound great in theory, but they are garbage in practice. Sometimes Blizzard hits, sometimes they miss. Unfortunately, when they're not missing on Shamans, we got next.

I don't blame Blizzard, I know it's hard. Lot of balls to juggle, and not everything always works. I do blame posters who exaggerate everything so goddamned much that serious conversations can't ever take place because this one time, a pally bubbled and they died because of it. It used to be paladins should NEVER die 1v1. Ever. Now it's paladins shouldn't be as viable as the next class because they have a bubble and that one week at 3.0 when, like 4.0, abilities were scaled for level 80 (85) play, but didn't get adjusted for what was left of 70 and we saw X class is OP, OMFG!!!!
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