All melee need an instant gap closer

2 Dwarf Hunter
0
No. Ret pallies don't deserve a gap closer, you are not warriors - get over it.


So feral druids/sub rogues/deathknights are all warriors now?

homogenization =|= giving classes/specs tools they need to succeed.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4375
No. Ret pallies don't deserve a gap closer, you are not warriors - get over it.


No, you don't play ret you have no opinion on the matter. Things are bad and even top players are pointing it out at 85

When warriors asked for a heal, or some means to sustain themselves, this exact same argument was applied. Now look at what they have, it's getting damn close to giving ret a run for it's money.

So yes, we need a form of gap closer. Being able to stay mobile only goes so far, but when mobility is completely predictable and constant, it's too easy to count
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90 Undead Warrior
3850
Even if ret's get a gap closer there is still no reason anyone would take one over any other mellee. Sorry to say but ret paladins have always been a joke in this game and i don't see that changing. Just go Holy.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4375
Or, an easier option, all of the ret paladins whining about how they aren't warriors should go reroll warriors so we can preserve class diversity.


Of course you'd be in favor of class diversity, yours works. So screw actually fixing something lets just keep things broke so they look different. What do you care you aren't affected

No. If something is broke, or out of balance, you fix it. There have been plenty of creative suggestions for this, none of which seems to get through to anyone.

And there's no reason for all the nerfs you are suggesting in exchange of a gap closer. The only real change is a bit lower exo dmg and getting rid of the wings/HoW portion of the talent. If the CD on this gap closer is enough, then ya get rid of LAofL. But that's it, damage doesn't need to be looked at because it takes a while to build up, and the reason it's so abyssmal now is because of lack of uptime.

Quite surprised you didn't suggest losing divine shield and having to wear chain since you brought up heals btw
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100 Human Paladin
10465
Your main frustration is that you cannot close on a mage which though true is a foolish idea. Casters are not balanced around mage neither should melee's gap closers be. Just because there is one caster that frustrates you does not mean you get to enjoy 100% uptime on all casters.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4375
Your main frustration is that you cannot close on a mage which though true is a foolish idea. Casters are not balanced around mage neither should melee's gap closers be. Just because there is one caster that frustrates you does not mean you get to enjoy 100% uptime on all casters.

I don't like him basing this off mages either, they're definitely worst case. That said there should still be a fight, and that's not currently the case.

Problem is, ANY caster gives us an extremely hard time. Before, while this was the case, ret used to dominate melee, so there was a sense of "balance". Then all the sudden other melee complained about it, and things became less and less in our favor, now there are actual fights. Well by that logic the same thing should apply with ret v. caster right?

Right?....

We're only getting the shorting end of the stick on this one.
Edited by Jenseits on 11/30/2010 11:50 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4375
How about you idiot paladins stop posting things like this so I won't have to point out that this is a multiplayer game so grap a partner that can hold them in place for you or pull them to you. Also no class should have everything and lastly roll a warrior half these posts suggest that you ret paladins would be happier with warriors.


Ignorance is bliss.

Posts aren't going to stop, so you're going to have to deal with it. I'd love to see you play a spec that holds a player in place and be told to do so so your ret partner could T-off on them. NO ONE should have to completely rely on another player to do their basic job. Don't see healers relying on anyone to heal, dps relying on other dps to dps. What's a ret's contribution to a team then? Whatever they contribute, holy/prot contributes the same AND more.

But it's ok for ret to be babysat right?
Edited by Jenseits on 11/30/2010 12:00 PM PST
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16 Troll Hunter
90
Sure i have wings/hammer but its usually dispelled by that mage way before i get 2 hammers off, and some awesome locks i have dueled remove it instantaneously.


Spellsteal (and to a lesser extent devour) is a different issue from your gap closer.

My statement was false. Some caster instants now do MORE damage than our instants. AND (some) are spamable! at 40 yard range!


What instants are you talking about? Is it just ice lance? Is ice lance representative these days of "omg so much caster instant!"

Moonfire is not gonna hit as hard as ice lance. Neither is fel flame. Nothing a priest will do either. I dunno, flame shock? What does that hit for these days. A few K?


and lets be fair, ice lance isnt even hitting that hard at 85 pvp. on affx's stream ice lance was critting for about 12k average, with peaks of around 18k with trinket/buffs. on 120k hp pools, thats not really that impressive.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4375
IMO caster dmg (outside of mage) isn't bad.

My main problem is how much dmg i can do in return. Given time, it's fine. It takes time to set up, but it can hit. But we need decent uptime to start building. We don't build up until we start hitting the target, and if you have lousy time on target the dmg isn't there. WotLK we "worked around that" by having such huge burst that 2 secs of uptime was devastating. It wasn't fun for anyone, but technically it was "balanced" because of our pitiful mobility. Now they adjusted dmg, but not mobility to the same extent
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7235
oh look, pally crying, how orignial.


haters gonna hate
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100 Night Elf Hunter
14265
Hunters say no. Just gonna throw that out there.
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85 Blood Elf Hunter
7250
I want some uber melee then? Actually no I just want to not suck.
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100 Goblin Warlock
19020

You're right, it does less damage without FoF or a freeze up but it's not that difficult to get up nowadays with Early Frost/CoCold ect.

Dispells are out of hand. Period.

Every caster does more damage than a ret with zealotry up...because if it's not instantly dispelled the ret is kited :P


You can instantly dispel FoF and ANY root the same way. A single non FoF/frozen ice lance does not even do the damage of any melee non auto attack and then maybe even some auto attacks.

Early frost implies you're casting frostbolt for a 20% chance to get 1 FoF charge every 15 seconds to get 1 potentially large ice lance. The same way ret self buffs get removed you can watch for a mage casting frostbolts and dispel FoF if they get it which a 20% chance is still semi low in pvp.

Dispels being out of hand works both ways and people getting kited are only getting kited in either 1v1 or unorganized non rated pvp. Ret already has faster land speed on foot than mages and with a compentent healer you aren't getting kited. Competent healer doesn't mean "lawl omg I have to have a pocket healer" because it's not a pocket healer in arena and rated battlegrounds it's called a balanced team.
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