Regrowth feels kind of weak

80 Undead Rogue
1470
The situations in which this a concern are not WoTLK heroics, but PvP and potentially Cata PvE. Right now you can continue to blanket rejuvs, cast WG on cooldown and generally be a raid healer. This is not the situation going forward.

I think they have transformed our role, and if we are seriously gimped eventually we will be buffed, but it likely won't happen until they see how lvl 85 healing turns out.


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85 Night Elf Druid
4185
It's already becoming an issue now, Sellen.

Already people are starting to catch on. There are literally mages and shamans running around doing nothing but spell stealing/purging druids all day every day for the faceroll win.

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80 Undead Rogue
1470
I don't mean to devalue the position we are in now in PvP, I just don't think they will do anything at all about it until Cata has been out for a bit.
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85 Night Elf Druid
6560
I want them to get rid of the 60% crit rating and just make it heal as much as other healers - the split between direct healing and the HoT is annoying, but I'd just prefer it to be as good as other healers' quick inefficient heals.

Then, they should just make living seed proc off of all regrowth casts. We would still be punished for spamming but in situations like you describe, constant heavy damage, as long as we waited for the person to get hit we'd still get most of the total amount our flash heal can heal for. But with it still split between the HoT and direct heal we could still use it for mastery and SM.
Edited by Hyacinth on 12/3/2010 1:17 PM PST
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
One thing I noticed very quickly on the Beta is that Regrowth was almost never worth casting, it simply does not do enough healing to bring people back from the brink when they need healing now. It wasn't so much an issue in the 25 mans but two healing some 10 man fights felt uncomfortably ineffective when i needed to get a lot of healing out fast on single targets. I was actually suprised how much comparitve heals were healing for on my Holy Priest and R Shammy premades.


This is actually what I was most conerned about in making this post. I know three healing is probably going to be popular, but if I want to two heal a 10 man I want to be able to perform my job as a healer at such basic levels. This is why I was talk about resto druids going into a more support healing role in groups.
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90 Tauren Druid
6455
To the guy who made the rather idiotic post saying, "my regrowth crits 100% of the time, I don't think shamans/priests have anything like that."

I really hope you are aware that when our regrowth CRITS, it STILL heals less than a non-crit flash heal/healing surge...

When flash heal DOES crit its around a 18-19k heal. My regrowth crit is 9k MAX, usually 8.5k.

Now, at 85, when my regrowth doesn't always crit, it seems like flash heal/healing surge will double (if theres crit TRIPLE) the direct healing done.

How is that in any way fair?
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
If Regrowth is to remain as the druids quick heal then something should be done to the 60% crit from talents. It's a little unfair to the class to create a 40% (less with certain buffs) hard cap for druids if they do not want to chance thier Regrowth not critting since it's heal is so weak without a crit + living seed. A druid at less than 40% crit will always have RNG that his high mana cost Regrowth will heal for less than his nouish and around half that of other healers (not including mastery), and this would be especially bad for pvp. It's a silly cap that doesn't really encourage druids to drift toward using direct healing when thier quick heal can be so "woefully inadequate".

This also makes using Regrowth extemely bad for Balance and Feral druids. They must pay a huge mana cost for a heal that is not likely to crit and even if it does crit it does not have the support from living seed that makes the heal barely decent for resto. The overall heal will be very low and they should never use it over Healing Touch. This makes the spell practically exclusive to Resto and still rather weak. Other Hybrids like elemental shamans and shadow priests use surge heal and flash heal all the time in pvp and when needed in pve since it's so reliable and strong.

Perhaps this was a balancing issue with all druids lifebloom and rejuv being affected by haste and crit, but it's strange that a heal can be so discouraged for non-healing specs that are available to it.

Adding 60% crit to an ability is a very, very odd attempt at balancing it and I can only assume it is to prevent Regrowth from critting a higher amount and perhaps being a little too strong in ToL for pvp. This heal and the affect Nature's Bounty has on it could use a look into.

I don't want 40% crit for Regrowth to be relible when it uses so much mana and is the druids equivilent to other healing classes quick, inefficient heals that are stronger and much more reliable, and much more useful for hybrids of those classes.

Edit: At 85 druids will probably have at best 20% crit, probably less, in beginning gear. This leaves a 20% chance (1 in 5) that Regrowth will not crit its target and makes Regrowth into a rather risky RNG spell, and dangerous for when a druid needs it for pvp and pve.
Edited by Stratis on 12/5/2010 7:35 AM PST
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80 Undead Rogue
1470
I was messing around on my shaman, and I thought I'd see how Healing Surge stacked up - a regular hit for 10k and a crit hit for - 15k + another 5k for ancestral awakening + 10% less physical damage for 15 seconds.

Whereas Regrowth clocked in an 8k crit and another 2 547 ticks and 2 critical 824 ticks + the living seed (non-critical is hard to get, as together with the talent I have 90%, but I did get a 5.8k).

Regrowth being a 1223 mana cast and 1.14 cast time for me.
Healing surge 1114 mana and a 1.12 cast time

Casts were in Org without the 30% and with ~5.8k gs.

A crit regrowth is slightly stronger than a regular healing surge, given all the ticks, and the target using the living seed. The crit healing surge was 2x a crit regrowth for the same cost/time + the damage reduction.
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58 Human Death Knight
0
12/05/2010 11:49 AMPosted by Sellen
I was messing around on my shaman, and I thought I'd see how Healing Surge stacked up - a regular hit for 10k and a crit hit for - 15k + another 5k for ancestral awakening + 10% less physical damage for 15 seconds.

Whereas Regrowth clocked in an 8k crit and another 2 547 ticks and 2 critical 824 ticks + the living seed (non-critical is hard to get, as together with the talent I have 90%, but I did get a 5.8k).

Regrowth being a 1223 mana cast and 1.14 cast time for me.
Healing surge 1114 mana and a 1.12 cast time

Casts were in Org without the 30% and with ~5.8k gs.

A crit regrowth is slightly stronger than a regular healing surge, given all the ticks, and the target using the living seed. The crit healing surge was 2x a crit regrowth for the same cost/time + the damage reduction.

I'm sorry, but the 5.8k living seed you are claiming is a lie. My 8k regrowth crits only give me about 2.4k living seed.
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85 Troll Druid
9165
I'm pretty sure that 5.8k was for a normal hit... not living seed.
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58 Human Death Knight
0
12/05/2010 11:08 PMPosted by Zie
I'm pretty sure that 5.8k was for a normal hit... not living seed.


Ahh, yes, I reread it and you are right, my reading comprehension was fail =/
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12/05/2010 11:49 AMPosted by Sellen
I was messing around on my shaman, and I thought I'd see how Healing Surge stacked up - a regular hit for 10k and a crit hit for - 15k + another 5k for ancestral awakening + 10% less physical damage for 15 seconds.

Whereas Regrowth clocked in an 8k crit and another 2 547 ticks and 2 critical 824 ticks + the living seed (non-critical is hard to get, as together with the talent I have 90%, but I did get a 5.8k).

Regrowth being a 1223 mana cast and 1.14 cast time for me.
Healing surge 1114 mana and a 1.12 cast time

Casts were in Org without the 30% and with ~5.8k gs.

A crit regrowth is slightly stronger than a regular healing surge, given all the ticks, and the target using the living seed. The crit healing surge was 2x a crit regrowth for the same cost/time + the damage reduction.


The issue is that the only time you'll be casting Regrowth in cata is when the target is likely to die in the time it takes to cast something else (IE Healing Touch), otherwise it's simply too prohibitive cost wise, and too ineffective healing wise. In every one of those situations that warrants a Regrowth you want the healing to be up front and hefty enough to move their health bar out of the danger zone, Regrowth in cata hits for next to nothing, in fact the upfront heal was almost the same size (~13 to 14k crits in full t11) as Nourish, it simply wasn't enough to do the job it's designed for, which means I was relying on other healers to bring people out the danger zone.

Healing may be a team sport but everyone needs to be effective individually for those situations where it falls to one person to save the tanks life. Living Seed and the HoT portion are useless if the target dies because the initial heal wasnt big enough.
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90 Worgen Druid
6550
12/06/2010 12:13 AMPosted by Kla
12/05/2010 11:49 AMPosted by Sellen
I was messing around on my shaman, and I thought I'd see how Healing Surge stacked up - a regular hit for 10k and a crit hit for - 15k + another 5k for ancestral awakening + 10% less physical damage for 15 seconds.

Whereas Regrowth clocked in an 8k crit and another 2 547 ticks and 2 critical 824 ticks + the living seed (non-critical is hard to get, as together with the talent I have 90%, but I did get a 5.8k).

Regrowth being a 1223 mana cast and 1.14 cast time for me.
Healing surge 1114 mana and a 1.12 cast time

Casts were in Org without the 30% and with ~5.8k gs.

A crit regrowth is slightly stronger than a regular healing surge, given all the ticks, and the target using the living seed. The crit healing surge was 2x a crit regrowth for the same cost/time + the damage reduction.


The issue is that the only time you'll be casting Regrowth in cata is when the target is likely to die in the time it takes to cast something else (IE Healing Touch), otherwise it's simply too prohibitive cost wise, and too ineffective healing wise. In every one of those situations that warrants a Regrowth you want the healing to be up front and hefty enough to move their health bar out of the danger zone, Regrowth in cata hits for next to nothing, in fact the upfront heal was almost the same size (~13 to 14k crits in full t11) as Nourish, it simply wasn't enough to do the job it's designed for, which means I was relying on other healers to bring people out the danger zone.

Healing may be a team sport but everyone needs to be effective individually for those situations where it falls to one person to save the tanks life. Living Seed and the HoT portion are useless if the target dies because the initial heal wasnt big enough.


I'm very worried about the possible results of the low upfront heal on Regrowth and the fact that it doesn't put out a consistently decent heal and with the added bonus of a much better crit heal than other healers have. If a healer goes down or if the fight is getting dicey I don't want the limitations of my Regrowth to be the reason I'm unable to prevent deaths in pve and pvp.

I don't like being separated from the other healing classes and put into a supportive healing role due to the function of a key heal that doesn't perform to the level of other healing classes equivilent.
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Overall on the beta Druids weren't in a bad place, even after the rejuv/revit nerf. To be honest I cast Regrowth so little in encounters outside of very specific mechanics that it wasn't spec breaking by any means, but when raiding on the beta started I remember being confused with Regrowth since it healed the same amount as Nourish, it was only when i tried other classes I realised how little it hit for.

Tank healing is propped up to a large degree by LB and OOC Healing Touches, and is very strong, so perhaps having a very strong fast heal would be borderline OP but it really feels lacking when its the heal you rely on to save someone's life.
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