Unintended consequences of mana at 85

3 Dwarf Shaman
0
I've been thinking of how in cata mana is supposed to become important for healers to watch and manage.

Now won't this make things like innervates more valuable if not mandatory to stack in a raid group.

It seems that having a feral druid, moonkin druid and resto druid you can get away with a lot of mana mismanagement, and in fact be advantageous in hardmode fights.

Kinda of defeats the purpose of bring the player not the class.
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90 Draenei Shaman
8150
innervate is terribad compared to shaman mana tide. 100% mana return from it if you handle your CD's properly.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14905
I've been thinking of how in cata mana is supposed to become important for healers to watch and manage.

Now won't this make things like innervates more valuable if not mandatory to stack in a raid group.

It seems that having a feral druid, moonkin druid and resto druid you can get away with a lot of mana mismanagement, and in fact be advantageous in hardmode fights.

Kinda of defeats the purpose of bring the player not the class.


Innervate is based on the casters mana, so feral innervates are garbage. Ferals won't be stacked for innervates.

Both moonkins and resto druids are balanced around using innervates on themselves to be on par with respective classes mana regen...however they do have the option to cast it on others, but at a serious cost to their personal regen. So although the potential to stack them is there, i don't think its a likely outcome.

And as the previous poster mention mana tide is turning out to be awesome when timed with spirit procs, and since shaman don't loose their mana tide regen to give it to others, the potential for stacking is more profitable.
Edited by Keiyra on 12/1/2010 6:37 AM PST
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85 Goblin Priest
3975
Innervate is based off the casting druids max mana pool so a feral innercate is near worthless, resto's will almost always use it on themselves unless they overgear the encounter. Moonkin's I'm not so sure about but I believe blizz posted somewhere they want it to be part of their regen as well and not shared unless really needed.

On a side note mana tide isnt that great either =P, enhancing spirit based regen when most classes will be reforging OUT of spirit after the first tier or so.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805

when most classes will be reforging OUT of spirit after the first tier or so.

Doubtful considering in the premade 359 toons you couldn't just spam your max hps heals.
More spirit = using more inefficient heals with higher hps.
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85 Goblin Priest
3975
HoH is quite bland when it comes to regen, 3 targets get 2% max mana with a max of 12 ticks? =\
The only true benefit is if i can afford to line it up with my SF to maximize the 10% bonus mana it gives for ashort duration. I'm pretty sure regen overall is well balanced and I'm hardly concerned about any regen mechanic being overpowered and stacked in raids.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805

On a side note mana tide isnt that great either =P, enhancing spirit based regen when most classes will be reforging OUT of spirit after the first tier or so.


I don't understand the logic with that one,if they keep witht he game plan then spirit will be more needed then Int just like how it is now (yea,i said it).


Int gives way more mp5 per point than spirit does if you have replenish in the group, on top of giving you spell power.
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85 Goblin Priest
3975
Spirit regen is bland at best, it was all through beta.. my druid was reforging out of all of it in 346 gear before the revit nerf. Come 359 premades i was playing a priest on beta and was reforging it off of half the pieces for the raids and not having real mana issues unless i was reckless with my mana.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805

Sounds to me like they need to do some more nerfing then.


Spirit imo should be our go to stat. Not int.


Well spirit is a secondary stat; it should be inferior to our primary stat, but out of the secondary stats, it's probably the one you are going to want the most.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14905

Int gives way more mp5 per point than spirit does if you have replenish in the group, on top of giving you spell power.


Actually, point for point spirit gives more regen than int (by a fair bit) that is including the regen increase from replenishment. Which is what makes mana tide potentially so strong.

However int increases, sp, crit, max mana, and affects other max mana restores (rapture, revitalize, HoH) so for those classes int closes the gap somewhat in terms of regen, and combined with other benefits may out weight it.

But from purely regen perspective, spirit is better than int.

Edited by Keiyra on 12/1/2010 7:43 AM PST
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95 Night Elf Druid
11710
Do people expect us to need a "max power" weapon and a "regen" weapon to swap around?

As for Mana Tide, is it group only or is it raid wide? I realize you can stack casters into one five man group, but I was just curious.
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Its just party wide :/ but I get about half of my mana back when i use it out of combat with no spirit buffs :D
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85 Human Paladin
9125

Int gives way more mp5 per point than spirit does if you have replenish in the group, on top of giving you spell power.


Actually, point for point spirit gives more regen than int (by a fair bit) that is including the regen increase from replenishment. Which is what makes mana tide potentially so strong.

However int increases, sp, crit, max mana, and affects other max mana restores (rapture, revitalize, HoH) so for those classes int closes the gap somewhat in terms of regen, and combined with other benefits may out weight it.

But from purely regen perspective, spirit is better than int.


There's also the meta level of int affecting mana longevity... with stronger heals, you might be able to use an efficient heal instead of an expensive one, so you actually use less mana in the process.

That's a lot harder to math out ahead of time since it's so situational, but it's certainly a factor. Not disagreeing with you, just commenting.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14905
Do people expect us to need a "max power" weapon and a "regen" weapon to swap around?

As for Mana Tide, is it group only or is it raid wide? I realize you can stack casters into one five man group, but I was just curious.


MT is Party only - and yes there has been some discussion of having a weapon with the spirit proc enchant for use during mana tide or heavy regen fights, and then a weapon with the Int proc enchant for other fights (though people may just use the spirit enchant all the time for the first tier or 2 and then swap to the int enchant. who knows)

Edit: Very true Daja, its a complex relationship (and infact the more spirit you have the better int becomes). Was just trying to dismiss the idea that Int was always more mp5 than spirit. Ideally you want as much of both as you can get at the start of cata raiding -- till you no longer feel mana pressure (whenever that may be, if ever), then you can reforge some spirit away.
Edited by Keiyra on 12/1/2010 7:53 AM PST
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90 Draenei Shaman
8150

Well spirit is a secondary stat; it should be inferior to our primary stat, but out of the secondary stats, it's probably the one you are going to want the most.


For a healer it should be just as impotent as Int if not more,for dps it should be a true "secondary stat".

Imo.

it's ONLY important if you're unable to have mana at the end of a fight. If you're able to handle mana properly, it's our worst stat.

By using spirit procs and trinkets properly, you can refresh your mana from 0-100% twice in a 5min fight with mana tide with 2 shaman. Which means spirit honestly isn't that good. Even from first tier raiding, spirit I placed as our worst stat for shaman. For sure nowhere near best. However I will concede that it has a much increased importance in cata compared to wrath. In wrath I was perfectly happy with 0 spirit. Now at least in cata, I have a baseline that I can't really ever go under.
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