New Character Models and Graphic Performance

100 Human Warlock
6345
If you want to play modern games, you need to buy modern hardware. It's the same for consoles and PC. WoW is so very lenient on this anyway that I really don't feel bad for anyone that needs to upgrade their machine (since you'll have to spend so little money on a compatible video card, for example).
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100 Human Paladin
14635
01/24/2014 09:12 AMPosted by Jexton
WoW is so very lenient on this anyway that I really don't feel bad for anyone that needs to upgrade their machine


This is sooo right, they have already given you low enough settings that the game under performs.

BE GRATEFUL!
Edited by Zarkraz on 1/24/2014 9:22 AM PST
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91 Dwarf Rogue
2695
01/24/2014 09:10 AMPosted by Zarkraz
01/24/2014 07:59 AMPosted by Notagin


It's a business decision for Blizzard to make. They can cater to the top end luxury PC market with fewer subs or water down the system requirements for more mainstream audiences as they do now. If they decide it is a luxury market product, I would imagine that they would have to increase the monthly subscription rate to recoup any revenue losses due to the smaller subscriber base.


You make me laugh. You call it a luxury, fine, but now you call it top end. That's just absurd.

Not even I would spend money on some super PC that wouldn't even make full use of to run WoW. The game needs jack all to run on ultra settings, unless you want some stupid shadows on ultra and maintain frame rate. Go do some multi card config then.

Here's the best part, I only said average PC, which is like fair-good setting. What company is going to have some restricted ultra only setting on their games. Ultra isn't for everyone and isn't what I'm saying everyone needs to be capable of, its not being able to even maintain low and asking devs to hold back on advancement.

You can only cater for the low end for so long, until you just have to let it go.

Ohh and please, stop talking crap about subs, if you really wanted to play this game, you'd make the effort to keep playing. If anything the game is dying due to the lack of graphical upgrades to its competition, tac on being a sub game as well, since F2P is what everyone wants this game to be. "They make MORE than enough through the store."

What utter garbage.


Very naive on "lack of graphical upgrades to its competition." I always thought games were more about the gameplay than the graphics. We'll find out if Blizzard's decision reflects more of your or my thinking on how much computer will be needed when they release the minimum and recommended system requirements for WoD.

And the "on being a sub game as well, since F2P is what everyone wants" reference, that made me laugh. The WoW community would change overnight and not for the better. I know for sure that Blizzard would be getting less than $15 per month from me if it were a F2P-microtransaction oriented game.
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24 Night Elf Hunter
290
01/24/2014 09:12 AMPosted by Jexton
If you want to play modern games, you need to buy modern hardware. It's the same for consoles and PC. WoW is so very lenient on this anyway that I really don't feel bad for anyone that needs to upgrade their machine (since you'll have to spend so little money on a compatible video card, for example).


The problem with your logic is the age of WoW.
If I buy a game for 3ds or PS4 or whatever, it will continue to play on any 3ds or PS4 in the future.
If I buy a game on PC it should continue to be compatible with the PC that I installed it on.

My PC isn't 8 years old, but it is 4, and I already have to run at the "fair" setting....
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93 Night Elf Hunter
7965
01/24/2014 12:54 PMPosted by Venoman
01/24/2014 09:12 AMPosted by Jexton
If you want to play modern games, you need to buy modern hardware. It's the same for consoles and PC. WoW is so very lenient on this anyway that I really don't feel bad for anyone that needs to upgrade their machine (since you'll have to spend so little money on a compatible video card, for example).


The problem with your logic is the age of WoW.
If I buy a game for 3ds or PS4 or whatever, it will continue to play on any 3ds or PS4 in the future.
If I buy a game on PC it should continue to be compatible with the PC that I installed it on.

My PC isn't 8 years old, but it is 4, and I already have to run at the "fair" setting....


No.

WoW may have been released 9 years ago, but that doesn't mean it's only required to compete with other games released 9 years ago as well. To remain competitive in the MMO market, WoW needs to evolve with the MMO market or relegate itself to obsolescence. Updated graphics are one part of that.

It's not as if WoW is the only game to ever update its character models. EverQuest was released in March of 1999 and upgraded their character models with their 3rd expansion, Shadows of Luclin. I believe it came out in 2002 or 2003.
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93 Night Elf Hunter
7965
01/24/2014 04:48 AMPosted by Tempcharac

Here is the annoying thing about video card upgrades, each generation gets more and more power hungry such that to upgrade to a new video card you have to upgrade your power supply too - and personally that is something I rather not touch as crappy power supplies will fry your PC's components.


No.

This is completely wrong.

If anything, top-end GPUs are sucking down LESS power from generation to generation.

The problem comes when you try to upgrade a PC with a low to mid-range graphics card to a high-end card. Dell or whatever isn't going to put a 600W PSU in the PC they're selling with a low-end graphics card when a 350W PSU will power it just fine and is, of course, cheaper.
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100 Human Paladin
14635
01/24/2014 12:54 PMPosted by Venoman

The problem with your logic is the age of WoW.
If I buy a game for 3ds or PS4 or whatever, it will continue to play on any 3ds or PS4 in the future.
If I buy a game on PC it should continue to be compatible with the PC that I installed it on.

My PC isn't 8 years old, but it is 4, and I already have to run at the "fair" setting....


You bought into the wrong market with that mentality. You purchased World of Warcraft but you are no longer playing that game. You are playing World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria. Blizzard stated the best time to implement new graphic upgrades is during expansions.

A Core 2 Duo is not the same as an i7, nor is a GTX 260 and a GTX 760, this is how PCs evolve. Its like Final Fantasy XII on the PS2, FFXIII on the PS3 and FFXV on the PS4. The newest one is on the newest hardware. At least you have a range of hardware to choose form and not just one console.

The biggest difference is that World of Warcraft doesn't exists anymore, it was REPLACED with MoP, so don't say I can still play FFXII on my PS2.

01/24/2014 11:18 AMPosted by Notagin

I always thought games were more about the gameplay than the graphics.


Of course games are more about game play than graphics and I wish a lot of companies would do this instead of making super high quality HD games. The devs want to make their game feel fresh and not 10 years old.

When there's that much difference, graphics are going to start pulling ahead of game play in importance. There has to be a minimum standard and those models were not up to it.
Edited by Zarkraz on 1/24/2014 6:36 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
4140
While I understand there are certain cases where people are on limited incomes or dire poverty and simply cannot scrape together the cash to buy new computers, that simply does not apply to most people. It's all about priorities. In 2008 I found myself with a system I'd owned since 2000 playing wow. It was a slideshow, absolutely horrible. I finally couldn't take it anymore and got a new system, and after seeing and experiencing the difference I made a promise to myself to never let things get that bad again. Now I upgrade my system every two years, which honestly is overkill and I'll probably slow down as time goes on, but I feel the need to point out a couple of things. Firstly, I am not a wealthy individual, I have a middle class job and a family to support just like many people. I simply have made other choices: I don't drink, smoke, or party. I buy my clothes at thrift stores and I drive a now 13 year old vehicle and I do not have cable TV. If I can afford a new system, at least 90% of people can afford to as well, they just need to decide what their priorities are.
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90 Pandaren Monk
4140
01/24/2014 12:54 PMPosted by Venoman
01/24/2014 09:12 AMPosted by Jexton
If you want to play modern games, you need to buy modern hardware. It's the same for consoles and PC. WoW is so very lenient on this anyway that I really don't feel bad for anyone that needs to upgrade their machine (since you'll have to spend so little money on a compatible video card, for example).


The problem with your logic is the age of WoW.
If I buy a game for 3ds or PS4 or whatever, it will continue to play on any 3ds or PS4 in the future.
If I buy a game on PC it should continue to be compatible with the PC that I installed it on.

My PC isn't 8 years old, but it is 4, and I already have to run at the "fair" setting....


The other thing to consider is that sure, your PC may be only four years old, but if it was a lower end model it will not have aged as well. In all honesty, a person with a Q6600 (a quad core processor released in 2007) and a decent video card can still play this game on decent settings. It's not so much the age of the PC as it is the spec. A brand new dual core most definitely will not perform as well as a two or even three year old quad core. It's important to really know what you're buying to ensure that your PC will last. My system from 2010, which my daughter now uses to play wow, is a quad core processor with a mid-high end card from that year and it can play wow quite well on high settings still, some setting set to ultra.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
8155
why not make it so we can use more than what is it 2 cpu cores? i would like to make use of my 6 cores.
Edited by Truepk on 1/25/2014 12:07 PM PST
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90 Pandaren Monk
4140
01/25/2014 12:00 PMPosted by Truepk
why not make it so we can use more than what is it 2 cpu cores? i would like to make use of my 6 cores.


On Intel systems wow generally sticks to 2 cores, on AMD I've seen 3 cores used.
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100 Blood Elf Mage
15070
01/23/2014 03:36 PMPosted by Bashiok
01/23/2014 03:29 PMPosted by Monkdim
Would it be possible to include the old models as a option so that users with older computers can opt out if the new models do cause some frame-rate lag.


That's of course something we've considered as a fail-safe, but again just don't know quite yet.


Pretty much answers anyone who is upset about the change between models too.
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90 Blood Elf Hunter
16045
Generally, if there is a drastic update to the graphics of a console game, then it's on a newer, updated system as well.

Why should a PC game be any different? Computers have evolved immensely over the past ten years. Games have evolved. I believe it is a good thing that WoW is trying to evolve too.

WoW has been improving in many graphical ways over the years. Take a look at the water. If you look at it in high or ultra compared to what it used to always be before it was updated (Think 'low' today.), it's a very large difference. Now in low setting, I can't imagine how I EVER found fishing pools back in the day.

My little laptop is fairly new, a year or two old. Most of the settings I keep on ultra, and the ones I don't particularly care for (Shadows, Light shafts) I turn to the lowest. It's not the best system out there, not by a long shot, but if I wanted to I could run the game on completely Ultra. And this laptop was fairly cheap. If you're still using the computer you used when the game released...You might want to look into saving money and getting a new computer. I understand that finances can be rough to manage, with bills and children and loans and everything in between standing in the way, but even a new cheap computer from walmart would run the game just fine.

WoW is pretty cheap entertainment. A lot of us are online most days. Their subscription fee hasn't risen in all of their years. You're getting updates on occasion, still paying your 15 a month, and with the expansions every few years. Going to the movies today where I live is 22 for two people. There's a little over one of our sub fees, for three or so hours of entertainment. Going out to eat can be the same, or even more expensive. Doing these activities in the same week, there's the amount of our every-few-years expansion, and that's not even including the gas it takes to travel. (I realize that people enjoy leaving their houses and doing things in the outside world, and that's fantastic... I'm not saying that you shouldn't go do things, just that if you are spending even a few hours on WoW...you get your money's worth)

With all of the money you're saving, a new computer wouldn't take very long to acquire! You don't need a top-notch system for the game. Like others have said, if you're running just fine in Pandaria, you should be alright. Pandaria is a beautifully detailed place, and so are the Pandaren a beautifully detailed race (Even though I only play on one, they're just not really my thing.)

I am excited for the new models, and I am eager to see the various faces and colourations of the races that are being remodeled. I'm glad the developers are working hard to bring us new things, to update a game that has been around for so long, and that they're not even charging us more.
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90 Orc Death Knight
8300
01/24/2014 12:42 AMPosted by Kraegore
Most armor in this game replaces some or all base model textures, so most of the extra polys won't even render. As far as I know armor isn't being redone, except maybe to fit the proportions of the new models.

The poly count for the new models is still pretty low by modern standards anyway, so I don't expect a noticeable change in performance unless you are playing on a 10 year old e-Machine.


For people that missed it.
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90 Worgen Warrior
11380
I'm surprised that they're even on the fence about not having the option to toggle the old models.
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100 Human Paladin
14635
01/25/2014 06:49 PMPosted by Sunday
I'm surprised that they're even on the fence about not having the option to toggle the old models.


I don't know any but do you know of any games that would let you use older models?

Models are not in the same boat as all the other graphical settings that you can toggle. They reflect more on what the game is than just textures and spell effects. It would also be odd to new people who don't know the history of the game. They would see this option that only changes 10/13 models.

As you can tell, Blizzard doesn't like things that could confuse someone.
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90 Worgen Warrior
11380
01/25/2014 08:46 PMPosted by Zarkraz
01/25/2014 06:49 PMPosted by Sunday
I'm surprised that they're even on the fence about not having the option to toggle the old models.


I don't know any but do you know of any games that would let you use older models?

Models are not in the same boat as all the other graphical settings that you can toggle. They reflect more on what the game is than just textures and spell effects. It would also be odd to new people who don't know the history of the game. They would see this option that only changes 10/13 models.

As you can tell, Blizzard doesn't like things that could confuse someone.


There isn't a precedent for this sort of thing. Confusing or out dated there are still going to be players unhappy with the changes to the characters they've been playing for years.

As far as models being swapped out willy nilly I would say that isn't a big deal but as I understand it the new models use a different animation system so that would make it much more complex.
Edited by Sunday on 1/25/2014 9:01 PM PST
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1 Undead Rogue
0
01/25/2014 08:46 PMPosted by Zarkraz
Models are not in the same boat as all the other graphical settings that you can toggle. They reflect more on what the game is than just textures and spell effects.


...

WoW on low and WoW on high are completely different beast.
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1 Undead Rogue
0
01/24/2014 01:47 PMPosted by Kalaryia
No.

This is completely wrong.

If anything, top-end GPUs are sucking down LESS power from generation to generation.

The problem comes when you try to upgrade a PC with a low to mid-range graphics card to a high-end card. Dell or whatever isn't going to put a 600W PSU in the PC they're selling with a low-end graphics card when a 350W PSU will power it just fine and is, of course, cheaper.

Just going off my personal experience.

I was upgrading from some nVidia card. I searched high and low trying to find a video card that will live happily on my power supply ... ended up with the budget ATi HD4670 which was actually a little over my PSU capacity.
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