New Character Models and Graphic Performance

100 Human Paladin
14940
01/25/2014 08:51 PMPosted by Sunday
Confusing or out dated there are still going to be players unhappy with the changes to the characters they've been playing for years.


I don't remember this thread being about whether people have attachment to old models. That's the whole reason of why they are being so careful to keep the old feel in the new models.
Edited by Zarkraz on 1/25/2014 9:10 PM PST
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I just ask that your modeling people put 25 of the updated models with the gaudiest armor they can find in front of the model for a raid boss and see what the framerates look like without any spell effects or animations going on.

Just arrange the models inside an empty cube, like we do testing new models for player made FPS gaming maps. If you don't hear a faint screaming sound coming from the test computer's graphics card, you're doing well.
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01/23/2014 03:12 PMPosted by Bashiok

We don't, and we tend not to have updated system requirements/recommendations until most content is in, most big changes and engineering are done, and we're looking like there isn't going to be anything else that would greatly affect performance. So we won't really know absolutely until some point through the beta. We're keenly aware of the system requirements the new character models may require, and how that could impact client performance. No further details yet on how they'll be supported on lower end systems, if at all.


One suggestion, assuming you have the tech to pull this off. I'm assuming that you have some form of LoD reduction for the models already, because let's face it, burning 6000 polys on something that's 90% of the way to the far clip plane is ... wasteful.

Have you considered trying a 30% to 50% reduction, dropping a 6000 poly model to 3000 or 4000 polys, and then providing an option to use this as the primary version. It obviously won't look as sharp as the high detail models, but if done well, it'll still look a lot better than the legacy models, and might provide an option for lower performance video cards.
Edited by Sotheby on 1/25/2014 9:34 PM PST
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100 Human Paladin
14940
01/25/2014 09:33 PMPosted by Sotheby
One suggestion, assuming you have the tech to pull this off. I'm assuming that you have some form of LoD reduction for the models already, because let's face it, burning 6000 polys on something that's 90% of the way to the far clip plane is ... wasteful.

Have you considered trying a 30% to 50% reduction, dropping a 6000 poly model to 3000 or 4000 polys, and then providing an option to use this as the primary version. It obviously won't look as sharp as the high detail models, but if done well, it'll still look a lot better than the legacy models, and might provide an option for lower performance video cards.


Clear example of asking to hold back the game right here. I'd say they're already too far off on the models to really scale back anything and still make the expansion deadline.
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100 Dwarf Hunter
15335
01/23/2014 03:12 PMPosted by Bashiok
01/23/2014 02:18 PMPosted by Aldirick
My question is, do you have any idea at this time what that demand is going to be? I have signed up for Beta and my computer specs are listed there, but I also know that I get lag in raids and high graphic environments, like flying through heavily colored areas.


We don't, and we tend not to have updated system requirements/recommendations until most content is in, most big changes and engineering are done, and we're looking like there isn't going to be anything else that would greatly affect performance. So we won't really know absolutely until some point through the beta. We're keenly aware of the system requirements the new character models may require, and how that could impact client performance. No further details yet on how they'll be supported on lower end systems, if at all.

Fun fact, the game still supports processors and graphics cards that were released over 8 years ago. To put that in other terms, modern day systems are in some cases 50x more powerful than the lowest end systems the game still supports. Moving us forward graphically in such a dramatic way with the new models is going to require a lot of testing, tweaking, optimizing, and determination of what we can realistically support going forward, but we just don't know what that will look like yet.
This blue post couldn't be further from the truth. I can not play WoW on my old computer anymore because it just won't support it. Playing with 2fps just sucks. There will be a decent performance hit with these upgraded models and what not.
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91 Tauren Paladin
5710
i cant wait
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100 Gnome Death Knight
17750
I have a Core I7-2600k Sandybridge CPU and a Geforce GTX 660. I have never seen my CPU pegged while playing the game. When the game dips below 60FPS, it is because my GPU is maxed out. I can easily see this by flying up in the air in a pandarian zone and looking downward. My FPS will drop into the 40s and my GPU usage will hit 100%. I have all graphical settings maxed out in the game and I am running at 1920x1080 resolution.

01/23/2014 04:43 PMPosted by Seventhwinds
I just hope my Sandy system is up to the task, I may upgrade to broadwell if it is more then 5% faster then sandy.
hoping 30%.
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60 Draenei Death Knight
1035
I bought a $700 ASUS gaming laptop and at present graphics it runs good settings minus shadows at around 30 fps.

Recently I bought a custom gaming rig desktop PC for about $750 that can run WoW on ultra with 60+ fps without breaking a sweat.

So I think it depends a lot on how you approach things. Still kicking myself for wasting money on a "gaming laptop" (I didn't know any better, I r fail with computers).

I used a lot of forums that I found through Google searches to get plenty of friendly, free advice for how to make a rig (from scratch) that can do X, Y and Z for different budgets ($500, $600, etc).

There are a lot of passionate, friendly hardware gurus out there who are very helpful. With my laptop they gave me the advice of turning shadows off to get from fair to good without losing much fps, little tips like that. They will also look at what you have if you tell them and figure out what you NEED to upgrade and what you can keep to help you save money. I know it is a generalization with special exceptions, but I never realized how happy many techies are to help out total tech noobs.

When I first found out about WoW getting better graphics though I did totally panic for a little while.
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100 Tauren Warrior
13685
For those of you wondering, the reason I have asked this question is that I have been having employment issues. For the past year I have worked through Temporary companies and have not worked since Thanksgiving. I have recently taken a job helping people file their taxes, which a part time seasonal job and also applied for a care center where I am going to make just above minimum wage. My past work skills are as an electrician and a security guard before that. I was trying to determine if I need to start saving money or if I could get by with what I have currently. I will say this about this game, it has been the best form of stress relief I have had at my disposal for sometime.

Thank you for your answers, they point toward things that I can upgrade to if need be.
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92 Orc Death Knight
10840
01/23/2014 03:12 PMPosted by Bashiok
01/23/2014 02:18 PMPosted by Aldirick
My question is, do you have any idea at this time what that demand is going to be? I have signed up for Beta and my computer specs are listed there, but I also know that I get lag in raids and high graphic environments, like flying through heavily colored areas.


We don't, and we tend not to have updated system requirements/recommendations until most content is in, most big changes and engineering are done, and we're looking like there isn't going to be anything else that would greatly affect performance. So we won't really know absolutely until some point through the beta. We're keenly aware of the system requirements the new character models may require, and how that could impact client performance. No further details yet on how they'll be supported on lower end systems, if at all.

Fun fact, the game still supports processors and graphics cards that were released over 8 years ago. To put that in other terms, modern day systems are in some cases 50x more powerful than the lowest end systems the game still supports. Moving us forward graphically in such a dramatic way with the new models is going to require a lot of testing, tweaking, optimizing, and determination of what we can realistically support going forward, but we just don't know what that will look like yet.


I was wondering about this as well. It was part of the reason of why I signed up for the beta. Are you guys working on optimizations to the engine (assets handling, etc.)? Also, at one time, I believe it was mentioned that we would have more control over particle density/effects, etc. For instance, only affecting other players, but not our own? For example, single target spells (Lightning Bolt, etc.)... seeing those particles don't matter to me... while AoE visibility is a tad more important (Healing circles, Death and Decay, etc). Also, being able to control the particles for players separate from bosses would be great. Are you planning on giving us further options?
Edited by Vindiseasel on 1/26/2014 1:20 PM PST
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90 Undead Warlock
2120
I feel for those who will have difficulties with the greater system requirements, and are on a tight budget, making upgrading difficult. But graphics upgrades have to happen. This is most apparent to those of us that have spent significant time playing other well know MMO's. WoW is the best game in so many aspects, but the comparitively low detail graphics (especially pre-MOP) is starting to fall below the minimum graphics threshold for a lot of players. The number of MMO game offerings increases by the day, but the MMO playerbase is relatively stagnant. This means for WoW to grow again, it has to recapture old players that have migrated to other games. And those potential returning players are not gonna be happy with a game that looks the same as it did several years ago.
Edited by Mulgumar on 1/26/2014 11:43 AM PST
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I look at it this way you can only accommodate Old out dated computers for so long, so let's face it guys Those who have 8 yr old computers just might have to bite the bullet and buy a new computer

I think Blizz has done a remarkable job at keeping the game playable for so long on these old computers

And before you guys call me an Elitist. I am currently playing on a 6 yr old laptop that likely will not be able to handle WoD.. as it can barely play MoP now.

So yes I am one who is going to be looking for a new Asus Laptop in the next 6 months
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92 Orc Death Knight
10840
In regard to my remarks, it's not necessarily about lower end systems. The fact is that WoW's engine is not optimized. It's better optimized than let's say SWTOR. SWTOR was a catastrophe. For an example of an optimized engine (See: UE3). I never drop below maybe 80 fps in massive combat, etc. The engine has just been super streamlined. So, let's not act like WoW's coders can't manage assets better. I have a Quad with a HD 6870 series card... and I should be getting better results. Blizzard should have a small contingency of their best coders trying to find ways of streamlining their engine. If need be, re-verse engineer some of the best engines out there. And, if their engine has limitations. It might be time, to start exploring other options.

DCUO used UE3 with Havok Technology Suite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKPfvGJHRvo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1kLTUcVE9Q
Edited by Vindiseasel on 1/27/2014 1:29 PM PST
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100 Undead Hunter
13430
What kind of old dumpy computers are you guys running that makes you even worry about updated character models slowing you down? The game is going to evolve. Stop living in 2004. If you can't run wow at a decent frame rate on even low settings, get a new computer. If you can't afford to get a new computer, then get a job and stop playing so much wow.
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100 Orc Warrior
12395
i guess some people still running Windows 95 here
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01/23/2014 03:36 PMPosted by Bashiok

That's of course something we've considered as a fail-safe, but again just don't know quite yet.


Off topic but I know where to find Crito in Game, but is there a Bashiok somewhere hiding ? ( My guildie accidently shot at Crito and then found out it's a 91 elite LOL , not clever when only a lvl 12 )
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100 Dwarf Shaman
DoJ
12300
01/25/2014 11:44 PMPosted by Deathdolly
I bought a $700 ASUS gaming laptop and at present graphics it runs good settings minus shadows at around 30 fps.

Recently I bought a custom gaming rig desktop PC for about $750 that can run WoW on ultra with 60+ fps without breaking a sweat.

So I think it depends a lot on how you approach things. Still kicking myself for wasting money on a "gaming laptop" (I didn't know any better, I r fail with computers).

I used a lot of forums that I found through Google searches to get plenty of friendly, free advice for how to make a rig (from scratch) that can do X, Y and Z for different budgets ($500, $600, etc).

There are a lot of passionate, friendly hardware gurus out there who are very helpful. With my laptop they gave me the advice of turning shadows off to get from fair to good without losing much fps, little tips like that. They will also look at what you have if you tell them and figure out what you NEED to upgrade and what you can keep to help you save money. I know it is a generalization with special exceptions, but I never realized how happy many techies are to help out total tech noobs.

When I first found out about WoW getting better graphics though I did totally panic for a little while.

Could you recommend one of these sites? I've been wanting to buy a high end gaming laptop or PC but they are expensive and many times not upgradeable so i've also been wondering on building my own desktop PC with my small budget.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
10550
01/23/2014 04:19 PMPosted by Zoltan
I am not saying you move to the bleeding edge ... but supporting 8 year old hardware is a bit extreme.


Eight years isn't very long; not everyone can afford to upgrade every five or so. Blizzard has to walk a fine line between meeting the needs of their customers (hardware-wise) and remaining competitive (graphics-wise). I'm sure they've done a lot of statistical research on the age of computers being used by gamers.

Personally, I've got money set aside for a new computer. I'm just putting it off until I have to buy one in order to play the games I love. I figure the longer I wait, the better a computer my money will buy.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
0
I build a new computer every 3 years. The advances in computing technology and software makes the old computers little better than web surfing devices. Most folks have moved past dial up because broadband is so much better and worth the money.

Why would you hang on to using an old computer when it becomes obsolete? I know most folks aren't driving cars more than a decade old. The same applies for computers except they need to be replaced at max every 5 years.
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100 Blood Elf Hunter
10550
01/28/2014 06:25 AMPosted by Danethil

Why would you hang on to using an old computer when it becomes obsolete? I know most folks aren't driving cars more than a decade old. The same applies for computers except they need to be replaced at max every 5 years.


My car is 17 years old, and still in good shape. I see no reason to spend the money on a new one. Of course, it takes cars a lot longer to become obsolete than computers. My 5 year old laptop is certainly showing it's age. I'm still getting good FPS on medium settings though.
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