Save Alter Time!

100 Gnome Mage
20090
I'm ok with removing the dps component from MI as long as the threat drop/aggro bounce are intact, and it can be this cool/fun spell for the purposes of solo play, like Slow Fall. Don't want to see the ability removed totally, just from dps rotations

It's a good pick of a dps cooldown to "prune" provided its not removed from the game totally on the basis that it used to be a dps cooldown. Like Slow Fall it's an amazing quality of life spell
Edited by Digerati on 2/8/2014 1:46 PM PST
100 Human Mage
9450
Do not remove Alter time! I love this spell!
100 Gnome Mage
20090
Thread cap inc btw, been awhile since I've seen something cap here
100 Human Mage
10545
[quote="114207050145"]

Mages shouldnt be on the chopping block for Button Bloat. I have less buttons on my mage than any of my alts. Shaman has the most (because of totems) Monk has 2nd most. But priest and druids still have at least double what my mage does.


Please allow me to overwhelmingly disagree. I currently have 27 buttons assigned to hotkeys, and I'm getting very frustrated because there are so many other buttons I need to use, but I have to click them because I'm out of manageable space to add hotkeys on my keyboard.

I would be happy with Arcane spec if we could keep:
3 offense: Arcane Blast (with Slow built-in), Arcane Missiles, Arcane Barrage
3 defense: Invisibility (Greater should be the default), Ice Block, Temporal Shield or Incanter's Ward
3 mobility: Blink, Presence of Mind, Blazing Speed
3 utility: Frost Nova, Polymorph, Counterspell
1 AoE per spec, all of which need a DPS buff
3 Other: Teleport/Portal, Intellect Buff, Slowfall

Cut:
Alter Time
Mage Bombs
lvl 90 Talents
Mirror Image (or work the effect into invisibility - the images would hang around your last location)
Spellsteal (could roll the effect into Counterspell, perhaps)
Evocation (Add mana recovery to Temporal Shield that is not damage-dependant, perhaps)
Arcane Power (Arcane Barrage casts could add a stacking buff that at X number of stacks gave you Arcane Power, or something like that)

This stuff is just off the top of my head, but I don't think I would have any complaints here.

Trollolololololol version: Just remove the cooldown from Blink and I will never complain again. :P
90 Dwarf Warrior
4910
02/08/2014 09:36 PMPosted by Tkeleth
[quote]


Mages shouldnt be on the chopping block for Button Bloat. I have less buttons on my mage than any of my alts. Shaman has the most (because of totems) Monk has 2nd most. But priest and druids still have at least double what my mage does.


Please allow me to overwhelmingly disagree. I currently have 27 buttons assigned to hotkeys, and I'm getting very frustrated because there are so many other buttons I need to use, but I have to click them because I'm out of manageable space to add hotkeys on my keyboard.

I would be happy with Arcane spec if we could keep:
3 offense: Arcane Blast (with Slow built-in), Arcane Missiles, Arcane Barrage
3 defense: Invisibility (Greater should be the default), Ice Block, Temporal Shield or Incanter's Ward
3 mobility: Blink, Presence of Mind, Blazing Speed
3 utility: Frost Nova, Polymorph, Counterspell
1 AoE per spec, all of which need a DPS buff
3 Other: Teleport/Portal, Intellect Buff, Slowfall

Cut:
Alter Time
Mage Bombs
lvl 90 Talents
Mirror Image (or work the effect into invisibility - the images would hang around your last location)
Spellsteal (could roll the effect into Counterspell, perhaps)
Evocation (Add mana recovery to Temporal Shield that is not damage-dependant, perhaps)
Arcane Power (Arcane Barrage casts could add a stacking buff that at X number of stacks gave you Arcane Power, or something like that)

This stuff is just off the top of my head, but I don't think I would have any complaints here.

Trollolololololol version: Just remove the cooldown from Blink and I will never complain again. :P


I appreciate that you're trying to add to the discussion, but if Blizzard makes mages have that few buttons I will hunt you down. That would make the class so boring it would be unplayable. It sounds about as fun as Arcane spec during Cataclysm.
[quote]

Mages shouldnt be on the chopping block for Button Bloat. I have less buttons on my mage than any of my alts. Shaman has the most (because of totems) Monk has 2nd most. But priest and druids still have at least double what my mage does.


Please allow me to overwhelmingly disagree. I currently have 27 buttons assigned to hotkeys, and I'm getting very frustrated because there are so many other buttons I need to use, but I have to click them because I'm out of manageable space to add hotkeys on my keyboard.

I would be happy with Arcane spec if we could keep:
3 offense: Arcane Blast (with Slow built-in), Arcane Missiles, Arcane Barrage
3 defense: Invisibility (Greater should be the default), Ice Block, Temporal Shield or Incanter's Ward
3 mobility: Blink, Presence of Mind, Blazing Speed
3 utility: Frost Nova, Polymorph, Counterspell
1 AoE per spec, all of which need a DPS buff
3 Other: Teleport/Portal, Intellect Buff, Slowfall

Cut:
Alter Time
Mage Bombs
lvl 90 Talents
Mirror Image (or work the effect into invisibility - the images would hang around your last location)
Spellsteal (could roll the effect into Counterspell, perhaps)
Evocation (Add mana recovery to Temporal Shield that is not damage-dependant, perhaps)
Arcane Power (Arcane Barrage casts could add a stacking buff that at X number of stacks gave you Arcane Power, or something like that)

This stuff is just off the top of my head, but I don't think I would have any complaints here.

Trollolololololol version: Just remove the cooldown from Blink and I will never complain again. :P


I REALLY hope you're trolling.

Besides that, 27 isn't much. You can easily push 50
Edited by Dizzee on 2/9/2014 1:26 AM PST
100 Gnome Mage
20090
Fire's about as simple as it gets when it comes to dps cooldowns:

- AT every 3 min
- MI every 3 min
- Combust every 1.5 min (which isn't nearly as big of a deal as it was in the past with the 5.4 nerf)
- TW once a fight (though a Shaman will usually do this anyway)

If they want to remove the dps component from MI, feel free, and they can potentially rework AT to be pure utility, no qualms here, but that's what I mean and others say when it's barebones. Dev interviews regarding early MoP said they sought to add complexity to Mages, and they still did that without adding a bunch of abilities.

We still have a lot of other cool abilities that aren't DPS cooldowns that I use throughout fights, but that choice is up to the player and dependent on fight strategy and personal preference.

Looking forward, 2 of the 3 L100 talents are DPS cooldowns, and Focusing Crystal has the potential to be a huge one, and I'm skeptical it can balanced, but the 90 talents weren't close to each other either in practice - Movement in encounters making Invo the obvious choice for Fire and Frost, Arcane needing the mana from RoP, and IW simply not proccing consistently on most boss fights. Personally I don't think talents should be tied that heavily into DPS, but it's also that way with glyphs too (Icy Veins and Combust Glyphs).

It's also likely we'll get a baseline spell added from leveling, but these spells now have a track record for getting removed or reworked in future expansions. Flame Orb was hit, and now we're looking at Alter Time and Mirror Image. Ring of Frost has undergone many iterations both for PVP and PVE reasons.
Edited by Digerati on 2/9/2014 1:46 AM PST
90 Blood Elf Mage
6680
I think that mirror image should be upgraded, to make it threat the clones like real players, but vanish inmediatly if hit by a non aoe direct damage skill. Also, make an exact duplicate of every mage skill, but withouth doing damage or cc, just to confuse the oponents, to make this, the clones should be changed to 2.

About Alter time, the spell is fine so chaging it or removing it would not be a good idea
100 Undead Mage
17095
Alter time is great an unique, no way I'd recommend that for removal.

Simplify AOE ability - Flamestrike, Blizzard, Arcane Explosion - Pick one, or make it spec dependant like the mage bomb

Shields/barriers - we don't need multiple types of these sorts of spells. Narrow these down to one that perhaps has spec flavors

Invocation / Rune of Power - I almost group these in with the shields, perhaps they can all be combined into one sort of maintenance / type of spell, if kept at all. Personally I dislike rune of power more than I dislike the old invocation, because at least I could move around how I needed to. I feel I am forced to use rune of power as the best of the three talents at the moment though.

Mirror Images - honestly the biggest enjoyment I get from these is when I need to drop aggro and want to be able to throw out some more dps while I don't have to worry about getting it back. Invisibility allows me to drop aggro, but not dps. I suppose if I can only have one, I'll take invis over mirror images, but a little better invis would be nice it's so easy to break before it takes effect.

Maybe combine spellsteal / counterspell. if target is casting, does a counterspell and has a full CD, if target is not casting or cannot be counterspelled, performs a spellsteal with a shortened CD.

Some of the spells that you really only use when certain buffs proc (like frostfire bolt for example), make them be automatic "upgrades" to a spell normally in the rotation so an additional ability/button isn't needed.

Granted, I'm pretty happy the way the mage class is but if you're looking to simplify I suppose that's what I'd do, in order or preference.
90 Troll Mage
3910
I have to say: Because of this thread, Ive been placing my finger on the AT button a lot more nowadays.

True Im not using it to its full potential, but I cant see why to get rid of it.

Raid or PvP, When I have full procs *click* and I get a huge burst of dps to use. I'm also starting to figure out how to use it when I have buffs up at the same time. (Now unless your gonna give me that huge dps buff Ive been asking about...)

Or how about being in PvP and getting ganked by the whole team? AT>Blink>Blazing speed>AT expires>Greater Invs and hope they dont feel like turning back around to look for you.

Im not going to say its any easier to find a new button to manage, but its there. Just have to practice muscle memory that you have it, and what kind of combinations to use it in.

(BTW. You know what else its useful for? That jerk who AFK follows you from the start of the raid for 30 mins. I stopped playing frost because I couldn't stand useless pets that follow you around.)

"Oh look- a void. *click* (jump) *click* (Raid singles out dead AFK player and kicks/Really awesome healer joins in his place.)
100 Gnome Mage
20090
Not a huge deal, but in terms of solo play, I also want to point out Mirror Image allows us to solo Conclave (which allows to do Alakir afterwards for the mount =p)

<3 Mirror Image
Edited by Digerati on 2/12/2014 1:03 PM PST
60 Gnome Rogue
650
Save Alter Time!

/signed
90 Undead Mage
17465
I really don't want Blizz to put Alter Time on the chopping block. It really is a cool spell that is unique (and definitely fits the mage class well) and it would be sad to see it go the way of Dark Intent. Although i suppose DI was a game changer for certain classes so i guess i can see why Blizzard decided to get rid of it. Alter Time is not even remotely close to the original DI so i don't know why they would gut it.

I will be very, VERY sad if they do decide to remove it. PLEASE DON'T GET RID OF ALTER TIME Blizzard!
100 Night Elf Mage
10900
Don't get rid of Alter Time. Just fix it. :)
100 Blood Elf Mage
10960
alter time has its problems but they could easily be fixed with various solutions proposed in this thread. as far as people dying due to positioning, perhaps have a minor glyph that gets rid of the return position mechanic of it. either that, or make the mage immune for a couple seconds to non-player abilities when coming out of alter time.

as for lost procs/buffs, i'm not sure. if you miss out on time warp dont forget that you can just recast it once you get out of alter time lol.

as for trinket procs, maybe have the internal cooldown timer reset when you get out of alter time since the cd is triggered during it? that way once you get out they all reproc anyways, though idk if there would be potential to abuse that.

fire blast has like 2 uses, fishing for arcane missiles and probably some pvp use (not including inferno blast for fire). that should be the first to go imo

overall personally i really like alter time, like most people said it provides more depth and potential to just using cooldowns, it can feel really rewarding at times. some people might find it clunky, but it feels fine to me. i would be sad if they got rid of it, although it has some flaws (that could be fixed somewhat easily) i find it to be one of the most interesting abilities in the game.

i would also just like to say that playing arcane on dark shamans at the opening pull. 2 stacks of arcane missiles and 4 stacks of arcane charge. alter time, pew pew missiles arcane blast and then BAM arcane barrage on like 4 targets. then out of alter time, back to 2 stacks of arcane missiles and 4 stacks of arcane charge, pew pew missiles and then BAM arcane barrage again oh man the feels and damage
Edited by Wombocombo on 2/20/2014 3:55 AM PST
100 Goblin Mage
15740
uhh, this thread was dead. D:
90 Worgen Mage
11790
if you miss out on time warp dont forget that you can just recast it once you get out of alter time lol

Incorrect. You are Sated.

i would also just like to say that playing arcane on dark shamans at the opening pull. 2 stacks of arcane missiles and 4 stacks of arcane charge. alter time, pew pew missiles arcane blast and then BAM arcane barrage on like 4 targets. then out of alter time, back to 2 stacks of arcane missiles and 4 stacks of arcane charge, pew pew missiles and then BAM arcane barrage again oh man the feels and damage

If you're waiting for 2 AM procs on the pull before using AT then your trinkets (KTT) and meta will have almost fallen off, making AT close to worthless. If you're using AM procs to determine when you AT, you're doing it wrong.
100 Blood Elf Mage
10960

Incorrect. You are Sated.

If you're waiting for 2 AM procs on the pull before using AT then your trinkets (KTT) and meta will have almost fallen off, making AT close to worthless. If you're using AM procs to determine when you AT, you're doing it wrong.


point is though these problems can be fixed. can just be made so that sated debuff goes away when alter time expires in the unlikely event that someone casts time warp during it. maybe there is a reason it doesn't work like that, but off the top of my head i can't see any ways that could be abused

even if you don't get any am procs, alter time anyways at 4 stacks, enjoy spamming high damage arcane blast for a good 5 seconds and casting an extra arcane barrage. not to mention extended buff duration

point is there are options available there is no reason to get rid of an ability that adds so much depth because there are a couple easily fixable flaws.
Edited by Wombocombo on 2/20/2014 4:28 AM PST
100 Blood Elf Mage
17095
Alter Time is just fine as it is, no need to change it. It's a great offensive CD and it can be extremely useful for a defensive CD.
I don't see what the issue with it seems to be, or are people just not understanding how to use it?

I guess the only thing that could be changed, would be to simplify it slightly, so it no longer snap-shots current buffs (trinket procs etc) so it isn't deemed to be OP as an offensive CD (fire in particular), but that would remove a good chunk of our damage.

As for removing abilities due to bloat: Mage bombs, Cone of Cold, Invocation etc.

Honestly, as far as it goes, there really aren't THAT many spells we need to utilise to do DPS outside of our main rotation...
90 Human Mage
7595
01/28/2014 11:18 AMPosted by Xiun
Really really really hope AT doesn't go away. It's such an amazing and interesting DPS AND survival CD rolled into one. I love that it requires some amount of thought instead of just hitting one of hundreds of "increase x stat/damage by x amount for x seconds" BOOORING.

And I have, personally, found that most alter time deaths/wipes are preventable by simply canceling AT or watching timers and using it smartly.


I don't PvE at all, but Alter Time is very useful in pvp. It can mean the difference between life and death.
Bring Flame Orb back!!!! Maybe Blast Wave!!
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