Why the removal of charge stun?

90 Worgen Warlock
11850
I knew the game dumb down, but I never knew it affected the player base as well. Pity...
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90 Pandaren Monk
10000
The first two pages made me die laughing. You're honestly using PVE as a complaint? The only fight that a charge stun is useful is Galakras, but you have Shockwave as well.... And the rest of your raid.

'But i need to stun Shaman on Nazgrim ASAP'.

If you're relying on a charge stun on the Warshaman on Nazgrim, you're doing it wrong.

'But what about stunning raid members on Garrosh that are mind controlled?'

If your raid members are that out of position to begin with, you're doing it wrong.

I'd be willing to listen to a PVP argument on this, but a PVE one? You can't be serious.
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Community Manager
We're going to revert the Charge and Warbringer changes from the 5.4.7 PTR and make a different change. Here's some context:

We feel that Warriors are too disruptive vs casters in PvP at the moment. To a certain extent it's intended that it should be more difficult to get casts off if there's a melee DPS sticking to you, but Warriors just have too many options along those lines currently. That's part of the thinking behind the change to Charge: as a root, Charge would not interrupt casting, so it would be useful purely as a gap closer and rage generator, not as a way to lock down a caster.

We're reverting it because, although we do think it's a good change and something we're likely to revisit in the future, it's a bit too big of an overall change for 5.4.7. There's a bit of a ripple effect here; making Charge a root certainly accomplishes the goal of scaling back Warrior interrupts, but it opens up some secondary issues (such as "what happens when you Charge a target with Hand of Freedom active?") that we'd need some additional time to clear up. Put another way, we wanted to nerf Warriors' ability to disrupt casters, not their mobility, and at this point in time the Charge change would have been a nerf to both.

So instead, we're making a different change: Pummel and Disrupting Shout will have a 15-second shared cooldown. To be clear: Disrupting Shout will remain at its current 40 second cooldown, but you won't be able to use it within 15 seconds of using Pummel. Likewise, using Disrupting Shout will put Pummel on cooldown.

We may still come back to the Charge change in Warlords, where all sorts of other changes will have happened (especially to CC) that allow it to make more sense, and we can spend more development and testing time on making sure it doesn't have any unwanted side effects. For now, the shared cooldown on Pummel and Disrupting Shout will fill our original intention of making Warriors just slightly less difficult to cast against.
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90 Dwarf Shaman
11695
02/03/2014 01:26 PMPosted by Lore
So instead, we're making a different change: Pummel and Disrupting Shout will have a 15-second shared cooldown. To be clear: Disrupting Shout will remain at its current 40 second cooldown, but you won't be able to use it within 15 seconds of using Pummel. Likewise, using Disrupting Shout will put Pummel on cooldown.

We may still come back to the Charge change in Warlords, where all sorts of other changes will have happened (especially to CC) that allow it to make more sense, and we can spend more development and testing time on making sure it doesn't have any unwanted side effects. For now, the shared cooldown on Pummel and Disrupting Shout will fill our original intention of making Warriors just slightly less difficult to cast against.

So warriors can't double-interrupt in PvP. That's fine and all, except that also extends to PvE. Do you know how many times I've managed to save someone in my group because I had a second interrupt at the ready, when no one else had theirs ready or could even use theirs?

Another PvE nerf because of PvP. Awesome. Can you guys just split all abilities up into PvP and PvE versions so this sort of thing stops happening?
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90 Human Warlock
15905
Next stop, double spell reflect.
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90 Human Warrior
11815
02/03/2014 01:26 PMPosted by Lore
So instead, we're making a different change: Pummel and Disrupting Shout will have a 15-second shared cooldown.


As the noob warrior who prefers piercing howl to DR anyway, I approve this change.
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90 Undead Monk
7360
02/03/2014 01:36 PMPosted by Hamarr
So warriors can't double-interrupt in PvP. That's fine and all, except that also extends to PvE. Do you know how many times I've managed to save someone in my group because I had a second interrupt at the ready, when no one else had theirs ready or could even use theirs?

Another PvE nerf because of PvP. Awesome. Can you guys just split all abilities up into PvP and PvE versions so this sort of thing stops happening?


Most melee only have one interrupt, there are interrupt rotations for a reason. Why should Warriors be exempt from this?
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90 Dwarf Shaman
11695
02/03/2014 01:39 PMPosted by Jonky
Most melee only have one interrupt, there are interrupt rotations for a reason. Why should Warriors be exempt from this?

I specifically gave my example as a 5-man group for a reason. The vast majority of players in LFG are seemingly unaware that they even have an interrupt. Having two interrupts allowed me to sort of pick up the slack and keep things covered (since they apparently can't use something that's off the GCD anyways, gotta keep up that DPS yo!). In a raid environment, I'm fully aware that everyone else only has one interrupt and you have to run interrupt rotations. Having seen and done heroic Protectors, I'm quite familiar with it.

For someone who strictly does PvE and no PvP (like myself), Disrupting Shout was always the strongest talent choice because it was a second interrupt. The other two couldn't even begin to compare.
Edited by Hamarr on 2/3/2014 1:48 PM PST
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42 Undead Warlock
12780
02/03/2014 01:39 PMPosted by Jonky
Most melee only have one interrupt, there are interrupt rotations for a reason. Why should Warriors be exempt from this?


Because it is something that made me different from the other melee. Now I feel like just any other melee class.
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90 Undead Monk
11585
I'm going to preface this by saying that I love PvP, I've PvPed in this game since classic. I just can't stand it when these massive, painful changes happen to PVE because of PvP...

Of course this was because of PvP. I'm not the least bit surprised.
I just wish we could fix PvP in a way that doesn't gimp people and playstyles in PVE. I understand that you're worried about tooltips being too confusing or incomprehensibly long; however, I feel most people would thank you in the end if the changes you made DUE to PvP only AFFECT PvP.
There's too much CC in PvP. It feels impossible to do anything in PvP anymore. This needs to change, but please don't let it affect iconic tanking styles in PVE. :(
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90 Undead Monk
7360
I specifically gave my example as a 5-man group for a reason. The vast majority of players in LFG are seemingly unaware that they even have an interrupt. Having two interrupts allowed me to sort of pick up the slack and keep things covered (since they apparently can't use something that's off the GCD anyways, gotta keep up that DPS yo!).

In a raid environment, I'm fully aware that everyone else only has one interrupt and you have to run interrupt rotations. Having seen and done heroic Protectors, I'm quite familiar with it.


Why balance classes around other people being dumb? That's ridiculous.
Edited by Jonky on 2/3/2014 1:48 PM PST
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hallelujah
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90 Human Paladin
20155
Thank you for being reasonable! This charge change makes no sense when the real culprit is Disrupting Shout (and possibly also Shockwave and Storm Bolt).
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90 Dwarf Shaman
11695
02/03/2014 01:48 PMPosted by Jonky
Why balance classes around other people being dumb? That's ridiculous.

And yet it already happens, most notably with raid content.

All they have to do is give Charge the Colossus Smash makeover, and split it into PvE and PvP versions. PvE version stuns, PvP version does not. Honestly, all other abilities should get the same treatment. There's been too many situations where a spell has been nerfed in PvP because of PvE, and vice versa.
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90 Troll Druid
8470
02/03/2014 01:39 PMPosted by Jonky
02/03/2014 01:36 PMPosted by Hamarr
So warriors can't double-interrupt in PvP. That's fine and all, except that also extends to PvE. Do you know how many times I've managed to save someone in my group because I had a second interrupt at the ready, when no one else had theirs ready or could even use theirs?

Another PvE nerf because of PvP. Awesome. Can you guys just split all abilities up into PvP and PvE versions so this sort of thing stops happening?


Most melee only have one interrupt, there are interrupt rotations for a reason. Why should Warriors be exempt from this?


Really? Because most melee only have 1 interrupt, warriors should only have 1? That's the worst line of logic ever. God forbid there might be some differences between classes such as.... GASP!!!! TWO INTERRUPTS!!!!!!!!

And for the record, having two interrupts is a god send when tanking, especially a ranged one like guardian's have. It's saved my group tons of times, including on Garrosh kills. And yes, I'm talking about Guardian druids who also have 2 interrupts.
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90 Worgen Warrior
16225
02/03/2014 01:26 PMPosted by Lore
Disrupting Shout will remain at its current 40 second cooldown, but you won't be able to use it within 15 seconds of using Pummel. Likewise, using Disrupting Shout will put Pummel on cooldown.


That's not a good change. Can't just make Charge's root bypass Hand of Freedom?
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90 Night Elf Warrior
8200
This isn't the first time a change for pvp has affected pve, but honestly I think Blizzard should've taken all the time they put into Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm and put it into splitting up World of Warcraft into 2 separate games. World of PvECraft and World of PvPCraft for lack of a better name. As many have said before, Let the PvPers PvP and let the PvEers PvE.
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3 Worgen Warlock
0
Just take away the second wind and give the stun back!
GG
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90 Undead Rogue
11495
lol all pve nubs complaing, shouldent have 2 inturpts to begin with

02/03/2014 01:36 PMPosted by Hamarr
So warriors can't double-interrupt in PvP. That's fine and all, except that also extends to PvE. Do you know how many times I've managed to save someone in my group because I had a second interrupt at the ready, when no one else had theirs ready or could even use theirs?

if ur in a srs raidin guild and yall dont know when and how to line up inturpts then lol.
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