Ret Paladin DPS Issue

90 Human Paladin
7975
Hello all,
Currently having a major issue with my DPS and I'm not sure what at all could be the reason why. I run the proper "rotation" without any difficulty, even ran it alongside CLCret to ensure I was following the proper priority. Using all holy power generators on cool down, sticking to 5HP TV's, and Inq is always maintained, as well as Execution Sentence. Priorities System:

Inq > ES > [5HP T16 Free DS] > 5HP TV > HoW > [T16 Free DS] > CS > Judge > Exo > 3-4HP TV

As well, I fully understand our stat weights and reforging style, scored currently at a 98% on Mr.Robot, the 2% differential existing for haste purposes. Always maintain my enchantments as well.
I'm a little hefty on Expertise, with 8.53% but thats just base level gear having significant expertise and is better than being below 7.5%.
I do still need my Thok's Tail Tip but the DPS issues I'm currently having are way beyond that.

I'm at 545 I LvL and I'm only pulling a consistent 130k DPS in SoO 25 Man Reg, measured via Recount, much to my Raid Leaders distaste. I know I should be higher than this and it feels almost as if my abilities are hitting lower than they should, anyone think that could be the issue? Really does feel broken.

Major Stats Unbuffed:
AP: 45104
Haste: 35.46%
Hit: 7.88%
Expertise: 8.53%
Mastery: 39.07%
Crit: 9.65%

Any help would be greatly appreciated. :3
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
9355
No legendary Meta or Cloak is hurting you, but shouldn't be the core of the issue.

With no Tier pieces for my ret set, no TTT either(/wrists), I usually push 160-180k depending on the boss. I know it should be better, but I don't play ret often so I get out of sync with my rotation. My ret set is 552 I think, so our dps shouldn't be to far apart, although I do have the Legendaries

Are you missing any raid buffs in your group? Good food/flasks and such?
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
7975
Aye the Cloak and Meta missing is an obvious downgrade to DPS, but not to the degree that I'm hurting. And during raids we always run full raid buffs, 275-300 food, and of course my strength flask. :3
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
7965
Sounds like your gear and priority rotation is OK. You may want to put judgment before CS, even though CS does more damage (if you include hand of light) but Judgment has a longer cooldown so using it first will give you a smoother rotation with less empty GCDs.

However, it looks like stats and rotation are not your problem. Let's look at some other factors in your dps.

As a ret pally your big numbers are going to come from AOE especially with your sexy four piece bonus. Find every opportunity to hit two or more targets and get good a judging the range of your divine storm (8 yards) and stand in a place to hit at many targets as possible. Always try to DS rather than TV when there are 2 or more targets in range.

Your movement and targeting is very important because any downtime is lost dps, doing good melee damage requires you to get really quick at switching targets. If you're switching from one target to another, get in a position where you're standing between the targets you're switching between so that you're movement will be the shortest possible amount. Time you're range attacks if possible to fill the time spent moving.

Finally, everyone has their own methods of hitting their buttons; key bindings, extra mouse buttons, clicking. What ever method you use to hit your six main abilities make sure that you're hitting them the second the cool down is up. I've seen people play where they wait until an ability is off cool down then click it, you should be spamming your buttons a split second before they come off cooldown so that they are activated immediately when they are available. A 0.1 second delay in your abilities could equate to a loss of 15k dps or more.

Also, hows your progress on your legendary metagem and cloak? That will be a huge increase for ya.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11910
WAY to many haste gems. Just ran you thru AskMrRobot and your are not at the point yet where you should gem full haste.

Here is a break down .

main hand , missing dancing steel, enchant that
head - gem, Fierce x1 (80st/160haste)
shoulder- gem Fierce x2
back- enchant hit, reforge hit >haste
chest- gem Fierce x3
hands- gem Fierce x2 and missing 170 stg enchant
waist- gem Fierce x2 and Quick x1
feet- gem Lightning x1 (160haste/160hit) enchant Panda Step
Ring 2(asgor)- gem Fierce x1

You will get ALOT more from that than what you are doing now. Too many Paladins get caught up in thinking that 40% haste at the expense of everything else. Not what you want to do. You will get more haste with gear, but you need to balance it with your other stats. Sure you hitting quicker but hitting like a limp noodle. Once you bring up your haste levels naturally with gear and balance with your other stats, you can cap that at 40%. That is what we mean by capping at 40%, it happens kinda naturally.

BTW i used edited weights. They were not the generic weights they give you.
Edited by Woa on 2/14/2014 10:47 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
6045
Well you should be getting at least 160-180 I would say, with my current gear I pull 200-220 single target. Also to add to what Monz said, you should get some sort of addon to track you procs from trinkets, enchants, and professions. That way you can use execution sentence more effectively, as it is a 'snapshot' ability. Personally I use 'need to know' for my procs. As soon as I get one or two procs I pop execution sentence. Getting Thoks trink will also help big time.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
12170
Your rotation is wrong.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9225
Do NOT put J ahead of CS, that will actually give you more empty gcds. CS and J should be ahead of free ds though.
Edited by Maegoree on 2/14/2014 11:32 AM PST
Reply Quote
You shouldn't really be sticking to a set rotation. You need to know what to prioritize instead.

For example, whenever my exorcism proc's and i have TV available, %100 of the time i would priortize exorcism to reset the CD on it. You really don't want to heavily relay on CLCret
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
7975
Yes, you all clearly skipped some of what I wrote. For one, rotation was in "air quotes," implying a lack of real rotation. Two, I also typed "Using all holy power generators on cool down." Read before commenting please. I don't use CLCret, I used it as a self-check while testing.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9225
You should generally go after the +180 socket bonuses (chest, head). Also, I notice you use a green gem, but don't have it in the blue gem slot in your boots, where you have a yellow gem. Not significant, but every bit counts.

Do you have any other shoulders? The ones off protectors are nice. I ask since you are over on exp, and the tier shoulders provide exp. Even downgrading to flex protector shoulders may actually help, since they have haste/mastery naturally.

Also, upgrading your weapon should your #1 priority since wep damage is the largest factor to dps.

Your professions aren't helping, but if you need the gold they provide, well, not much to do about that.

Next thing I'd ask is how do you use AW and GoAK? They should be used on CD 95% of the time. Only time you wait is for a burn or if you are only gonna get one more GoAK and AW, then you can wait to make them line up one last time.

Edit: OP, I would keep using clcret if I were you. It sounds like you have some things to fix, and in the process of fixing those things, you don't to get your rotation wrong. Use clcret to keep you on track, or you can use weakauras2 and a good string, whichever you feel comfortable with.
Edited by Maegoree on 2/14/2014 11:44 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9225
02/14/2014 11:22 AMPosted by Snugs
You shouldn't really be sticking to a set rotation. You need to know what to prioritize instead.

For example, whenever my exorcism proc's and i have TV available, %100 of the time i would priortize exorcism to reset the CD on it. You really don't want to heavily relay on CLCret


What? If you have 5hp and use exo just because it procs instead of tv, you're doing it wrong. Or if you prioritize exo over CS or J at ANY time, you're doing it wrong.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
7965
Just a note, minor gear issues will not cause that big a loss in dps and getting the perfect haste build will not give you that big of a boost, it's part of it, but i really suggest you look at your Divine Storm use as your first avenue to get higher numbers.

Also, something to track your cooldowns like tell me when or weak auras helps out massively.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9225
02/14/2014 11:51 AMPosted by Monzaligar
Just a note, minor gear issues will not cause that big a loss in dps and getting the perfect haste build will not give you that big of a boost, it's part of it, but i really suggest you look at your Divine Storm use as your first avenue to get higher numbers.

Also, something to track your cooldowns like tell me when or weak auras helps out massively.


You are going to have to further explain the DS use.

Cooldown tracker is a solid recommendation though. That's another reason I would stick with clcret. You can use it to track CD's on AW, GoAK and ES. I used extracd for tracking trinket cds, but I've been told tellmewhen is nice too. Of course, WA2 works for this too.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11910
02/14/2014 12:02 PMPosted by Maegoree
02/14/2014 11:51 AMPosted by Monzaligar
Just a note, minor gear issues will not cause that big a loss in dps and getting the perfect haste build will not give you that big of a boost, it's part of it, but i really suggest you look at your Divine Storm use as your first avenue to get higher numbers.

Also, something to track your cooldowns like tell me when or weak auras helps out massively.


You are going to have to further explain the DS use.

Cooldown tracker is a solid recommendation though. That's another reason I would stick with clcret. You can use it to track CD's on AW, GoAK and ES. I used extracd for tracking trinket cds, but I've been told tellmewhen is nice too. Of course, WA2 works for this too.


4pc Proc.

That not the issue with his dps. Assuming his play is solid, rotation, Cd use, tracking trinket procs ect. Just looking at his gemming strat was enough to warrant my post with a full explanation of how to gem , reforge and enchant.

Go to his model page and then check the advanced tab. 16 haste gems! 16! SIXTEEN!!!

That is just wrong.

Doubt he will take my advise. But it was my good deed for the day.
Edited by Woa on 2/14/2014 12:54 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9225
I bet skipping the socket bonus for pure haste gems is closer than you think it is on the gear that isn't +180 bonus.
Reply Quote
So my main is a 533iL ret pally I feel like we are little laggin in the dps part but I have no problem with that as long as we have a raid cd but atm AM I dont think is enough of a deal breaker. What do yall think.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11910
02/14/2014 01:13 PMPosted by Maegoree
I bet skipping the socket bonus for pure haste gems is closer than you think it is on the gear that isn't +180 bonus.


You would lose that bet.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
9225
@ Furiion, I simmed you and you simmed at 226k dps. I would say that if in the IJ and Malkorok fights if you aren't pushing 180-190k (especially Malkorok) then you should look at what you are doing with your dps cd's and basic rotation. Also, looking at you new setup I see two things I would change, first I would reforge from expertise on your weapon to haste (instead of mastery->haste as you are currently), and if you end up below exp cap, then just put an exp/haste gem in a red socket. Second, put 170 str on your hands instead of 170 haste.

@Woa, when I simmed him, his weights came back at str=5.17, haste=4.12, mastery=3.54, crit=3.23. Doing the paper math on his weights, putting fierce gems in the hands comes to a score of 2,766, and putting straight haste comes to 2,636.8. So haste gemming is 4.7% below optimal. On the belt, haste gemming is 3.2% under optimal. I don't know if that is as close as you'd thought it'd be or not. Clearly, he should match color slots on these sockets, but I would argue that if 40% was obtainable, then it would be worth skipping as long as he specced SW.

Furiion, if you take the stat weights above and go to askmrrobot, and input them, then you will see what you should do for optimal gemming/reforging. It actually has a few things for you.

However, as I said in the first paragraph, if you aren't hitting around 80% of your simdps on the patchwerk fights (IJ and Malkorok), then something is up. Either you are doing something wrong, your raid is asking you to do too much offhealing, or you are lagging hard. One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that you are using Seal of Truth, right?
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
9940
That is too big of a difference in dps for gemming or reforging or lack of cloak. It's got to be how fast he's hitting the buttons and which buttons he's prioritizing.

You stated you use CLCRet but only as a guide on dummies? Not sure I understand if this means you don't use it during a fight? If not, use it during the fight and see what happens. You should be almost always clicking buttons with little to no downtime (if there is press sacred shield). Using clcRet during the fight will ensure you're hitting the right buttons.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]