Extremely low DPS from Prot Pally

90 Tauren Paladin
6705
I've been tanking since I made this account and been working my way up tanking LFR, I always look at the DPS of the raid and see I have extremely low DPS compared to other tanks. I have 524 ilvl I have gems and enchants but I only hit about 25K to 40K DPS with raid buffs.

How can I increase this? My rotation is Crusader Strike > Judgement >Fiiller > Filler >Repeat and once 4 HP I use Shield of Righteous

I'd like some pointers and info on how to try and fix this.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
15255
A lot of parry|| dodge gear, low haste, sort of bad trinkets.
Not sure if that's a good enough reason for 25-40k dps (i def remember doing more in lower ilvl) so possibly a question of vengeance and how quickly you're pressing buttons.

Hard to give a definitive answer w/o logs.
Edited by Liminara on 2/15/2014 4:18 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9280
Short answer, you can't fix it.

I have a level 90 druid, dk, pally, monk, and warrior, all of which are tanks. Out of all of them, pallys have the lowest damage output. I really feel that prot and ret are in need of a lot of love. There are almost no rets on the upper arena leader boards. Vanguards is (imo) the best ret worldwide and he is currently around 45ish in 3v3s, but I digress.

Prot pallys feel like they are "good enough." In there hay day the were king of AoE tanking, before DKs, and now monks. Monk single target damage is just silly, even after being nerfed TWICE, their mitigation is out of this world, if played correctly not to mention the raid utility they have with Ox statue, chi wave, avert harm, ect.... having a short GCD is awesome, just like dks and bears.

I could go on and on about other classes but the bottom line is that Prot pallys are (this is going to piss some people off) the kindergarteners of the tanking world, which sucks because my pally was my main for about 4 expansions. You don't really have to manage much while tanking, just keep shield up as much as possible. Which is lame because Dks can just spam death strike and rune strike with the occasional blood boil or heart strike.

Prot pally play style is fun, but why bring a prot pally when there are more superior tanking classes, or should I say classes that are more based off of player skill, not just "you get what you get"
And you can get aura mastery from the holy pally, a spec that is doing well for pallys.

But for your main question, you need to be stacking on the Ret gear as a Prot pally (something I also don't like) Haste >mastery gear, with haste trinkets and haste enchants, HASTE HASTE HASTE. More haste = more holy power = more shields and a bit more damage, but not much. You can also use Seal of truth for a tad bit more DPS, but its defiantly not worth the self healing loss from seal of insight, which IS the prot pally seal, regardless of what people might say.
Edited by Eatmyeyes on 2/15/2014 9:56 PM PST
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90 Human Paladin
12110
02/15/2014 09:55 PMPosted by Eatmyeyes
You can also use Seal of truth for a tad bit more DPS, but its defiantly not worth the self healing loss from seal of insight, which IS the prot pally seal, regardless of what people might say.
I'm fairly sure it would be a dps loss, so yea never swap as he said anyway.

02/15/2014 09:55 PMPosted by Eatmyeyes
You don't really have to manage much while tanking, just keep shield up as much as possible.
I would disagree.

02/15/2014 09:55 PMPosted by Eatmyeyes
Prot pally play style is fun, but why bring a prot pally when there are more superior tanking classes, or should I say classes that are more based off of player skill, not just "you get what you get"

Prots bring another Devo, can break mechanics via vengeance healing, etc.

Regarding OP, stack on that haste as much as you can but don't stress about tank dps, worry about staying alive. Within flex and lfr, tank dps is not going to make or break the timer.
Edited by Condge on 2/15/2014 10:08 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17045
02/15/2014 09:55 PMPosted by Eatmyeyes
Short answer, you can't fix it.

I have a level 90 druid, dk, pally, monk, and warrior, all of which are tanks. Out of all of them, pallys have the lowest damage output. I really feel that prot and ret are in need of a lot of love. There are almost no rets on the upper arena leader boards. Vanguards is (imo) the best ret worldwide and he is currently around 45ish in 3v3s, but I digress.

Prot pallys feel like they are "good enough." In there hay day the were king of AoE tanking, before DKs, and now monks. Monk single target damage is just silly, even after being nerfed TWICE, their mitigation is out of this world, if played correctly not to mention the raid utility they have with Ox statue, chi wave, avert harm, ect.... having a short GCD is awesome, just like dks and bears.

I could go on and on about other classes but the bottom line is that Prot pallys are (this is going to piss some people off) the kindergarteners of the tanking world, which sucks because my pally was my main for about 4 expansions. You don't really have to manage much while tanking, just keep shield up as much as possible. Which is lame because Dks can just spam death strike and rune strike with the occasional blood boil or heart strike.

Prot pally play style is fun, but why bring a prot pally when there are more superior tanking classes, or should I say classes that are more based off of player skill, not just "you get what you get"
And you can get aura mastery from the holy pally, a spec that is doing well for pallys.

But for your main question, you need to be stacking on the Ret gear as a Prot pally (something I also don't like) Haste >mastery gear, with haste trinkets and haste enchants, HASTE HASTE HASTE. More haste = more holy power = more shields and a bit more damage, but not much. You can also use Seal of truth for a tad bit more DPS, but its defiantly not worth the self healing loss from seal of insight, which IS the prot pally seal, regardless of what people might say.


@OP I would suggest you ignore this post. He's right about the haste stacking but literally every other sentence is just flat out wrong.
Edited by Vaelryn on 2/15/2014 10:47 PM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
15255
02/15/2014 10:46 PMPosted by Vaelryn

@OP I would suggest you ignore this post. He's right about the haste stacking but literally every other sentence is just flat out wrong.

Seconded.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9280
@OP I would suggest you ignore this post. He's right about the haste stacking but literally every other sentence is just flat out wrong.


Leave it to some keyboard warrior to take what I said to the extreme, you might notice I used the words "think" and "feel" often.

I am just saying that prot pallys need some love, that thing you obviously aren't getting.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
15255
02/16/2014 12:55 AMPosted by Eatmyeyes
Leave it to some keyboard warrior to take what I said to the extreme, you might notice I used the words "think" and "feel" often.

I am just saying that prot pallys need some love, that thing you obviously aren't getting.

Because a) devo > avert harm b) blood dk's don't just spam death strike c) haven't seen a reasoning behind other classes being superior d) holy paladins aren't doing too hot atm e) blood dk's have lower dmg output than prot paladins.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17045
02/16/2014 12:55 AMPosted by Eatmyeyes
@OP I would suggest you ignore this post. He's right about the haste stacking but literally every other sentence is just flat out wrong.


Leave it to some keyboard warrior to take what I said to the extreme, you might notice I used the words "think" and "feel" often.

I am just saying that prot pallys need some love, that thing you obviously aren't getting.


The only love I can see prot needing is better non-vengeance DPS. That's really it. Our active mitigation is awesome, our raid utility is even better, and the class just in general is in a good spot PvE-wise.

The DPS issue is being addressed in Warlords, so I see zero reason to be complaining about prot's future.
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90 Human Paladin
11085
02/15/2014 09:55 PMPosted by Eatmyeyes
Short answer, you can't fix it.

I have a level 90 druid, dk, pally, monk, and warrior, all of which are tanks. Out of all of them, pallys have the lowest damage output.


This man is wrong and anyone listening to him should be a ashamed.

Dude, you're telling him it's normal to pull 25-40k DPS raid buffed, while tanking, as a Prot Paladin at ilvl 527.

All tanks are pretty balanced this patch, I'm always head to head with my warrior co-tank in SoO. Paladins scale really well with vengeance and our Haste gearing really ups our damage output. We might be "lowest" on ranking sites, but in game we're totally comparable.

OP can fix it, I was doing above 90-100k DPS in ToT back when I had his gear level. This is most likely both a gearing (his gear really is pretty bad, not ilvl wise, item choice wise) and a rotational issue. Maybe he's just not hitting the buttons fast enough.

02/16/2014 12:55 AMPosted by Eatmyeyes
Leave it to some keyboard warrior to take what I said to the extreme, you might notice I used the words "think" and "feel" often.

I am just saying that prot pallys need some love, that thing you obviously aren't getting.


No, what you're saying is that you have no clue how to play a Prot Paladin properly. Death Knight ----> way.

Go spam blood boil and death strike more before you call us "no skill".
Edited by Berith on 2/16/2014 3:48 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
13080
Here is a question to you Berith , do you have a suggestion to escape another tanks aggro? Not having a problem with my dps and i know i have a taunt buff, but i taunt then usually seem to have to pop wings or use holy avenger to get my threat higher in a distance to the warrior im tanking with.
It maybe a gear issue im 545 in my tank gear 39% haste but its mainly ret pieces no tier pieces and i have no aggro issues except with the other tank, what do you use when you tank swap? any thoughts would be appreciated. Let me say where not wiping and i manage just dont think i should be that hard.
Thanks
Tarlon
Edited by Tarlon on 2/16/2014 4:02 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
11085
02/16/2014 04:01 AMPosted by Tarlon
Here is a question to you Berith , do you have a suggestion to escape another tanks aggro?


Salv them, BoP them or tell them they're bad players for not knowing how to watch a threat metter if all else fails (obviously, more politely). Watching your threat and letting off to let your co-tank get some after a taunt swap is your responsibility as a tank.

So if your co-tank pulls off of you, he's just playing badly.
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90 Human Paladin
13080
Well that's just it i wouldn't think we would have to let off with the taunt buff, but i really haven't tanked fully since TOES and i only tank on the occasion here. and i never have to let off threat when he taunts he just passes me like im standing still.
Yea thats what we do i tell him to hold up and he does i was just trying to find a way not to since he doesn't seem to ill try the salv though don't know why i didn't think of that guess im slipping or so ret minded these days didnt occur to me lol
But thanks like i said when i step in we still clear up to Garrosh appreciate it.
Peace out
Tarlon
Edited by Tarlon on 2/16/2014 4:41 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
11085
02/16/2014 04:40 AMPosted by Tarlon
Well that's just it i wouldn't think we would have to let off with the taunt buff, but i really haven't tanked fully since TOES and i only tank on the occasion here. and i never have to let off threat when he taunts he just passes me like im standing still.


And I just pass my co-tanks like they're standing still when they taunt off me. That's just how vengeance is.

It's more of an issue early in the fight or earlier on adds that just spawned, less later on when the threat values are in the hundreds of millions (obviously, 10% of 200,000 is easier to reach than 10% of 200,000,000).

It's been like this all expansion.
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90 Human Paladin
13080
Good point!!
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
7370
02/16/2014 04:01 AMPosted by Tarlon
Here is a question to you Berith , do you have a suggestion to escape another tanks aggro? Not having a problem with my dps and i know i have a taunt buff, but i taunt then usually seem to have to pop wings or use holy avenger to get my threat higher in a distance to the warrior im tanking with.
It maybe a gear issue im 545 in my tank gear 39% haste but its mainly ret pieces no tier pieces and i have no aggro issues except with the other tank, what do you use when you tank swap? any thoughts would be appreciated. Let me say where not wiping and i manage just dont think i should be that hard.
Thanks
Tarlon


Maybe a dumb question, but do you have Righteous Fury on? I remember I had just started tanking again and was having the same problem. DOH, no RF!
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90 Gnome Monk
10055
02/16/2014 03:46 AMPosted by Berith
All tanks are pretty balanced this patch, I'm always head to head with my warrior co-tank in SoO. Paladins scale really well with vengeance and our Haste gearing really ups our damage output. We might be "lowest" on ranking sites, but in game we're totally comparable.


Balanced as far as having proper defensive toolkit and somewhat comparable in 25 man heroic setting on dps. But in 10 man where dps is more important, paladin has the worst damage output. You may be comparable to your warrior co-tank in your guild, but there could be many factors as to why that is (Are you the first to pull, do you tank more, are you exploiting vengeance). Doesn't make much sense discrediting ranking sites because its factual information, where your input is more subjective based on your experience. While you're pulling 200k on spoils, I can do 350k. That's not balanced.
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90 Draenei Paladin
8635
Obn, I think your problem is...now hold still...get thissss.... YOU HAVE PVP GEAR ON WHILE DOING PVE STUFF! WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING BUD? PvP gear is specifically made for killing other players, not raid bosses silly! Natamis, my main pulls over 100k dps easily! (Legendary cape helps pull about 10k more dps)

I can assure you you're doing something right by playing a Paladin, Paladin's are beast! I Solo tanked normal Norushen and it felt amazing. So my best advice would be to get rid of the PvP gear and replace it with PvE gear.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
HC
15255
02/17/2014 01:37 PMPosted by Natamis
Obn, I think your problem is...now hold still...get thissss.... YOU HAVE PVP GEAR ON WHILE DOING PVE STUFF! WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU'RE DOING BUD? PvP gear is specifically made for killing other players, not raid bosses silly! Natamis, my main pulls over 100k dps easily! (Legendary cape helps pull about 10k more dps)

I can assure you you're doing something right by playing a Paladin, Paladin's are beast! I Solo tanked normal Norushen and it felt amazing. So my best advice would be to get rid of the PvP gear and replace it with PvE gear.

PvP gear == PvE gear of same ilvl,
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90 Human Paladin
4855
Remember when DKs were qualified to comment anywhere about anything?

Me neither.
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