Big Continuity Issue:Zangermarsh,Blade's Edge

There are some pretty... sizable Continuity issues in WoD.
ill will be addressing the following :Zangermarsh turning into "The Sea of Zanger"
Blade's Edge turning into Gorgond and touching on Terokkar and Talador.
Hellfire turning into Tanann is Correct and stays within continuity very nicely and is a unique twist.

First im referencing the Novel :"Rise of the Horde" by Christie Golden

(id like to point out i understand the "timeline" and how blizzard is useing it. that we are going back. but in an alternate "time line" i get it)

i had read this book about 5 years ago and vaguely remember this but needed more information. I
felt it necessary to read before WoD anyway as a refresher. i have found the Following and am citeing the work so it can be referenced and verified. mind you this is the stand alone version of the book. Not the Archived one.

one thing im not going to cite but is valid in this. the time the orcs had warlocks was about, a year and a half, before they end up leaving the planet. it is HIGH HIGH HIGH implied in the book at many points that the warlock magics helped hurt the land, that coupled with the ABSENCE of Shamen a combination effect with massive altercations.I will be giveing a "Ball park" time frame with each Work Cited.

Firstly and most important to me is Zangermarsh.
It is being shown on the WoD site that where the Zangermarsh is, the Sea of Zangar resides now.
Zangermarsh in someway would have had to have "existed ".even if it was small.
here is the passage:

"The orcs did not know about the Zangarmarsh. They had not yet sniffed out this hiding place,and if Velen had anything to say about it,they never would."
page 323 : Apx one year of Warlock magics.

this States plain as day it was there. in some way shape or from. in this chapter the story of Velen being "forced" to leave behind hundreds of his people to die while a small group leaves shat, before the assault of the Horde. Zangermarsh being the destination of there escape.

Second is Blade's Edge
It is shown on the WoD site that Gorgond is where blades edge is. while it looks mountainous in the art. it looks more... Dourtar mountainous that Blade's Edge style. That is an issue in some ways, while the book does not reference the "Appearence" of the mountains, it does reference the name of them.

"the orges had told them where thier masters lurked and led them to this place-an opening at the foot of the Blade's Edge mountain chain."
page 259 :Apx between six months and one year of warlock magics

The Blackrock Clan are going to see the Ogres in BLADES EDGE, to see if they can get some to join them.

Third, i looked and looked tho, i cant find Terokkar again. i finished reading yesterday and remember seeing it .tho in my scanning could not relocate it.with all of the "T's" in the book.

My "issue" with this is simple , if for some reason it is merely a name change thats fine, i guess.im just curious as to how and hope to find out as to why. the "zone" in both seem relatively the same in almost every way. its just a name change not a huge continuity issue especialy sence i dont have evadence of wording.

of Topic siteing

I love the Dragonmaw. and am curious if anyone thinks well see them in WoD, they are a "pre-portal clan, as show here, i see many people saying they are not but they are. now as to where they got there name. i know not. but its very exciting to find out

"" Now,look at us! We stand shoulder to shoulder, clan by clan, Laughing Skull next to Drangonmaw,"

page 302 [ there is another passage about them earlier in the novel, but i chose not to use both. one gets the point across]
this is Gul'Dan speaking to the Horde at the very end of the book.

Last thing the once hidden city of Telmor, i DONT recall it in any Outlands quests and assume it will be in WoD in some way shape or form. tho i havent done those quests in years. i should get a new character and redue them before saying anything tho i didn't not find any thing about this city either via seach engine or this offical site.I hope to see some light on this as well

These are things im curious of. i have read all the rules of this form. ive search the site for some one who has asked this question for quite a awhile . unable to find someone. or any information (even via search engine") i came here, hopefully to get some closer in my issue of continuity, i digress

World of Warcraft... What say you?
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Hunter
17250
02/23/2014 12:28 AMPosted by Gartherix

World of Warcraft... What say you?


Blizz is pretty ruthless about retconning whatever they need to make their new stories work. I don't think they are going to bother explaining the discrepancies, but if they did they could say it's an alternate reality, so things are different.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Hunter
6620
Zangermarsh,Blade's Edge


Probably don't exist on AU Draenor, because the Outland that we know is Draenor after it was blown to smithereens by Ner'zhul's portals.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Monk
16325
I think part of it is most of that stuff if from Rise of the Horde and Golden tends to write based on what's visible in game. A lot of the details in the book probably just aren't correct anymore.
Reply Quote
02/23/2014 12:28 AMPosted by Gartherix

World of Warcraft... What say you?


Blizz is pretty ruthless .


I would like to agree with this whole heartedly. but they didnt, or i havent gotten wind rather. of them stateing alternate reality. tho i realize your saying, if others bring this to them, that will be there... defense.

Fine, if its an "alternate reality" and they put that on packageing and game information ill be very happy with it. but as it now stands

"Alternate timeline" is what is being used. that being said i feel by there honor these thing should be fixxed or yes, use there defense and stand by it, make that happen, there is a big difference and it matters
Edited by Gartherix on 2/23/2014 12:53 AM PST
Reply Quote
02/23/2014 12:36 AMPosted by Lena
I think part of it is most of that stuff if from Rise of the Horde and Golden tends to write based on what's visible in game. A lot of the details in the book probably just aren't correct anymore.


I must Disagree it cant be dismissed like that. the game is partially based off this book, well in a way. and the book is PRE PORTAL

meaning this is before it dun blown up. only thing that could augment this is the warlock magics witch i state in the article
Edited by Gartherix on 2/23/2014 12:44 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
13360
I'd be pretty interested to see what happens with this, mostly because inconsistencies always suck lol. I haven't read the books but i've definitely been more interested recently and this is a great point moving forward into WoD
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Monk
16325
I must Disagree it cant be dismissed like that. the game is partially based off this book, well in a way. and the book is PRE PORTAL

meaning this is before it dun blown up. only thing that could augment this is the warlock magics witch i state in the article


The book isn't even consistent with itself. The Dragonmaw Clan is around in the book, but once the Dark Portal is created the narrator notes that the orcs had never seen the creatures on the portal before. Those creatures were dragons. So how can there be a clan named Dragonmaw when the orcs had never seen dragons before?
Reply Quote
02/23/2014 01:32 AMPosted by Lena


The book isn't even consistent with itself. The Dragonmaw Clan is around in the book, but once the Dark Portal is created the narrator notes that the orcs had never seen the creatures on the portal before. Those creatures were dragons. So how can there be a clan named Dragonmaw when the orcs had never seen dragons before?


Very well, this is Primarily about Zangermarsh and Blade's Edge.but i like your passion and this is in part progress.but i have a rebuttal

Firstly the book is exceedingly consistent: please give me an example as to where it is not.factual if you please.

Second: the Dragonmaw ARE around in the book, one example is in the orginal post, cited mind you. here is another.

"They were in front of the crowd,standing next to the Thunderlord clan and the Dragonmaw Clan. The portal gate had been finished..." page 344- "Rise of the Horde" Christie Golden
now they dont do ANYTHING of note. other than be mention as a clan. MULTIPLE TIMES ill give you that point.

Third " narrator notes that the orcs had never seen the creatures on the portal before. Those creatures were dragons. "-Lena
this is an assumption. here is the quote i think your referring to.

"Two cloaked,figures, whose eyes glowed red either from magic or cleaver technology,flanked the opening. A carved serpentine creature curled about the top, its maw gaping open,showing pointed carved teeth.it extended sharp,lizardlike claws and had ridges along its long neck and body. Durotan had never seen anything like this, and brielfy wondered how such an image had occurred to the masons. a nightmare , possibly?" page 344 - "Rise of the Horde" Christie Golden

on this point & passage above:
First: Durotan! has never seen this before.

Second: Dreanor. well OUTLAND..., has rapors, and flying serpents? if memory serves. EITHER could be refereed to as DRAGONS to the Dragonmaw
( in many Asian cultures primarily Chinese myths , they have flying "dragons" witch we see more less like big snakes with legs that fly(i do at least), we Human beings...we,... i havent at least... seen a dragon,have you? how can you define it? its an imaginative creature, the komoto dragon is called a dragon. they are bigger than a medium sized dog have no wings and have no breath weapon. but still a dragon they where deemed.Its all in the eyes of the beholder my friend)

Third: the description that this gives could lead the reader to belive that it is some sort of Elongated pit Lord.
the original Portal. Dreanor side was destroyed by the Alliance , so the one in WoW now is a reconstructed one. Meaning what ever this "creature" is we dont know[for this is a new one and could have slightly diffrent art(tho by its description its not like any we have, outlands being a dragon head and claws, while the Blasted Lands port has a snake)]. does it sound like a Dragon. hell yes. but like i said above. a raptor might be a "dragon".

is my Rebuttal acceptable? do you understand where im coming from?

PERSONALY, i wanna know where that name came from. its an exciteing prospect for me.as to what made it be that Legendary name. even if it was a frog haha, i digress
Edited by Gartherix on 2/23/2014 3:40 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Warlock
14370
Seems like pretty easy fixes to me. Zangermarsh in WoD is where the Zanger Sea meets the land, and Blade's Edge was just a nickname some Orcs called Gorgrond. Gartherix's explanation about the Dragonmaw makes perfect sense to me as well.
Reply Quote
02/23/2014 08:46 AMPosted by Selvig
Seems like pretty easy fixes to me. Zangermarsh in WoD is where the Zanger Sea meets the land, and Blade's Edge was just a nickname some Orcs called Gorgrond. Gartherix's explanation about the Dragonmaw makes perfect sense to me as well.


There's also a mountain range in eastern Frostfire Ridge, could be that is the Blade's Edge Mountians. For Zangarmarsh a recent interview made mention of a marsh in Nagrand, if the marsh is on the northern coastline then it could easily be Zangarmarsh.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
13130
Seems like pretty easy fixes to me. Zangarmarsh in WoD is where the Zangar Sea


Fixed. It's Zangar not "Zanger"

And you are completely spot on, I asked Dave Kosak in November where Zangarmarsh was as it was clearly stated in the novel it was there and he said marsh borders the sea.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
13130
02/23/2014 09:12 AMPosted by Falrinn
02/23/2014 08:46 AMPosted by Selvig
Seems like pretty easy fixes to me. Zangermarsh in WoD is where the Zanger Sea meets the land, and Blade's Edge was just a nickname some Orcs called Gorgrond. Gartherix's explanation about the Dragonmaw makes perfect sense to me as well.


There's also a mountain range in eastern Frostfire Ridge, could be that is the Blade's Edge Mountians. For Zangarmarsh a recent interview made mention of a marsh in Nagrand, if the marsh is on the northern coastline then it could easily be Zangarmarsh.


Mind linking the interview? I like to know about these things.
Reply Quote
Thank you for you time my friends,but furthermore
i need evidence of these...Truths. in my ignorance i have not found my evidence and have come here for answers.To me we need the information Referencing these points ,you good people are pointing out.

@Selvig: i must admit. there not "Hard" fixes but something that needs addressed.I personaly fell as tho they cant do a ...Rename of that zone. they are called Blade's Edge with good cause. something should reflect such.even if it is just a small little area that demonstrates such traits.

atop that either issue for me could easily be solved in thus a way, that being they have a small area. a small little Zangermarsh a Small area of Blade's Edge. id be very comfortable with. Just as long as they exist.

@Falrinn: Please show me, if you have the time. some Representative implying these things. i mean it could look similar to what we want but, really it needs to said these thing exist. not something could be them.
for instance i dont think they could merely say "well Gorgroud is Blade's Edge other name" much like i believe Terokkar and Talador will be. for Gorgound is simply slightly high hills from the art. nothing stupendous mountains about it other than the abundance of stone in the zone.

@Grazzbek: i would very much like to see this if you have any availability to do so? and yes in interview or even post link would be wounderous and very educational for me. i hope its merely my ignorance not being able to find said information.
Edited by Gartherix on 2/23/2014 11:37 AM PST
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Warrior
4575
A part of FF and GG is called Blade's Edge. When Draenor was destroyed, FF and GG crashed unto one another and formed the current Blade's Edge.

A small part of Talador is Zangarmarsh. I assumed it became bigger when Draenor got destroyed. The towns in the were probably islands. With mushrooms growing at the bottom of the sea.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
14440
02/23/2014 01:32 AMPosted by Lena
The book isn't even consistent with itself. The Dragonmaw Clan is around in the book, but once the Dark Portal is created the narrator notes that the orcs had never seen the creatures on the portal before. Those creatures were dragons. So how can there be a clan named Dragonmaw when the orcs had never seen dragons before?


The Dragonmaw is just the Common translation of their Orcish word for flying beast. For all we know, the Dragonmaw Clan could specialize in Wyvern training on Draenor, hence the name. As for the rest, Blade's Edge is the transitional mountain range between Gorgrond and Frostfire, and the Zangar Sea quote could refer to the Draenai refuge within the area. Afterall, the Warlock magics of the Original Horde transformed most of Draenor into a barren wasteland.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
7065
Zangarmarsh likely formed due to the world dying, sea levels lowering causing regions like hellfire and shadowmoon to be so desolate, so zangarmarsh was a mold-filled sea, then when dark magic corrupted the world, began killing it a good while before the portal was ever an idea, the draenei fled to an area that was newly formed, forming their refugee camps within the increasing swampland, notice how the book never mentions the coast of Draenor, only the inner land and the people.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
11075
Some topographical maps came out in the last few days. Zangarmarsh exists on the coast of Nagrand and Talador, as you can see here:
http://i.imgur.com/5W4qJfg.png

As for Blade's Edge, the spiky mountain peaks exist in Frostfire (we've seen screenshots) and Blizzard said when Draenor exploded Frostfire and Gorgrond collided to form the Blade's Edge we know today.
Reply Quote
My point is being sorely missed for the most part. mostly to my own rambleings.

Id like to clarify, Black and white, i understand how things could change and form, from the time reference in WoD. I have my own theory and have heard many.That is not the primary point about the zones.
This is quite simple.

Where are the areas "Blade's Edge & Zangarmarsh"REFERENCED IN THE TIME WoD is taking place. These areas are referenced,there for must exist in some way in WoD! I want to know where and how,if you please.

I ACCEPT Zangarmarsh being a small area bordering the Sea. but i want a reference point. I DO NOT QUESTION the Validity of that possibility, i want closure on said fact.
Also i could accept that Blade's Edge, was perhaps a figure of speech., if you will. for instance the Black sea on planet Earth is not Black.its dark water, i will not lie, but gets the name due to many shipwrecks that happened in bad storms, and due to no islands in the sea, people die a lot. black kinda meaning death in a way here. Blade's edge could be a figurative in a similar way. Say, the Orcs viewed Gorgound as the "blade's edge" because with the Ogres and Gronn living there, they are literally going to the "blade's edge", that is a deadly area.
NOW I COULD ACCEPT MANY THINGS. even the whole Frostfire ,Gorgound range between them. Fine.
but

Please give me a reference point, i cant accept. "im telling you this so belive it" back it up.its not addmisiable unless you do.

@Cobble:
cool but, reference point if you will

@Aenistris: Did not know about that translation nor have i read any thing of.tryed finding it could not. tho Wyverns come from Stone Talon mountains in Kalimdor. i could see however the flying serpents being there name sake in a way if your. translation rings true. i can also see your point on the marsh and mountains but i just want points referenced please.

@Malenar: haha i see your points my friend. tho if we remember ... the wonderful Lady Vash. was draining the zone which more than likely helped that. but again my friend i wanna know now. and the book not mentioning these things is almost a blessing in disguise. i mean we get a jungle because of it :) i think it was very clever of them to do this how they have honestly. tho in truth i kinda hoped there was more map. but in the WCII game the maps was kinda how this one is in shape and in WCII it does show Dreanor haveing a coast. the lack of information in the book lets them do this. which is kinda cool i wont lie. IMO

@Reignac:
thank you for the link. tho its kinda...mushroom like, i could see your point but is there any thing offfical saying it to be the "Marsh"?

and again my people reference points that these are TRUTHS. not speculation of. "well it could be this, Or it could be that." back it up please.
Edited by Gartherix on 2/23/2014 11:00 PM PST
Reply Quote
90 Troll Druid
13130
Thank you for you time my friends,but furthermore
i need evidence of these...Truths. in my ignorance i have not found my evidence and have come here for answers.To me we need the information Referencing these points ,you good people are pointing out.

@Grazzbek: i would very much like to see this if you have any availability to do so? and yes in interview or even post link would be wounderous and very educational for me. i hope its merely my ignorance not being able to find said information.


Yeah let me scroll through his tweets hold on.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]