Warlords of Draenor Racial Traits

MVP - Technical Support
100 Human Warrior
20315
03/03/2014 12:06 PMPosted by Plezuré
So why are dwarves getting a 2% increase to a secondary stat while the rest of the races are only getting a 1% increase. Seems really unfair to everyone else and OP for them.

Because it's Crit BONUS not crit. Crit bonus is not a secondary stat. it's a damage mod, like skull banner gives now when it's down.
100 Human Mage
14755
03/03/2014 11:18 AMPosted by Celestalon
So the logic of EMFH remaining unchanged but Will of the Forsaken getting bumped to 3 minutes?


Unlike the other racials that provide some type of CC-dispel, Every Man For Himself actually replaces a CC-Break PvP trinket; it isn’t in addition to it. So what you gain with EMFH is actually a trinket slot. Thus its power is very much related to what trinkets there are available. We're still determining our plan for PvP trinket itemization, so haven't decided on what to do with EMFH quite yet. It’s quite strong, and we agree that it looks unfair from those patch notes; we just haven't decided what to do with it yet. So, don't take that list as a statement that EMFH won't be changing somehow.


The top pvpers trend to Horde. So it's obviously not a very big advantage, so why change it?
100 Night Elf Hunter
19115
03/03/2014 12:03 PMPosted by Celestalon


Regarding Touch of Elune, we're making all secondary stats useful to everyone (aside from Spirit for non-healers and Bonus Armor for non-tanks), and more closely balancing their value.


It's a shame, then, that the Draenei one boosts primary stats. I've heard for literally years that you guys intend to make secondary stats more helpful for Hunters. But as I recall AGI is still literally over 3 times as valuable as any secondary stat for us.

If your goal is to make all the secondary stats better on a more level playing field then that's fine; I'll believe it when I see it. But Heroic Presence looks much nicer than a lot of the other options (with one possible exception being the boosted crit damage for the Dwarf racial for specs that rely heavily on crits). But that isn't a secondary stat either since Amp was removed.

I don't feel super keen on the "secondary stats will be fine" talking point since some of these number boosting racials aren't related to secondary stats at all.
90 Undead Warlock
13835
Very disappointing to see so many races have multiple useful abilities while Undeads are getting their only one nerfed. Let's be honest, touch of the grave does almost nothing.
100 Dwarf Priest
18400
03/03/2014 12:11 PMPosted by Aeolyn
03/03/2014 12:03 PMPosted by Celestalon


Regarding Touch of Elune, we're making all secondary stats useful to everyone (aside from Spirit for non-healers and Bonus Armor for non-tanks), and more closely balancing their value.


It's a shame, then, that the Draenei one boosts primary stats. I've heard for literally years that you guys intend to make secondary stats more helpful for Hunters. But as I recall AGI is still literally over 3 times as valuable as any secondary stat for us.

If your goal is to make all the secondary stats better on a more level playing field then that's fine; I'll believe it when I see it. But Heroic Presence looks much nicer than a lot of the other options (with one possible exception being the boosted crit damage for the Dwarf racial for specs that rely heavily on crits). But that isn't a secondary stat either since Amp was removed.

I don't feel super keen on the "secondary stats will be fine" talking point since some of these number boosting racials aren't related to secondary stats at all.


idk as of current raid now its better for some classes and spec its better to go pure secondary stats (like my paladin favors haste) than just going normal primary stats.
Edited by Ragnivald on 3/3/2014 12:14 PM PST
96 Human Mage
10805
03/03/2014 12:10 PMPosted by Fairadey
The top pvpers trend to Horde. So it's obviously not a very big advantage, so why change it?


Top 100 in 3v3 there are 3 or 4 humans.. EMFH IS SO OP
43 Human Paladin
0
03/03/2014 12:10 PMPosted by Fairadey
03/03/2014 11:18 AMPosted by Celestalon
...

Unlike the other racials that provide some type of CC-dispel, Every Man For Himself actually replaces a CC-Break PvP trinket; it isn’t in addition to it. So what you gain with EMFH is actually a trinket slot. Thus its power is very much related to what trinkets there are available. We're still determining our plan for PvP trinket itemization, so haven't decided on what to do with EMFH quite yet. It’s quite strong, and we agree that it looks unfair from those patch notes; we just haven't decided what to do with it yet. So, don't take that list as a statement that EMFH won't be changing somehow.


The top pvpers trend to Horde. So it's obviously not a very big advantage, so why change it?
Yep most alliance side pvpers are human. And Forsaken got their cc break nerfed. Why not alli?
100 Night Elf Hunter
19115
03/03/2014 12:13 PMPosted by Ragnivald
03/03/2014 12:11 PMPosted by Aeolyn
...

It's a shame, then, that the Draenei one boosts primary stats. I've heard for literally years that you guys intend to make secondary stats more helpful for Hunters. But as I recall AGI is still literally over 3 times as valuable as any secondary stat for us.

If your goal is to make all the secondary stats better on a more level playing field then that's fine; I'll believe it when I see it. But Heroic Presence looks much nicer than a lot of the other options (with one possible exception being the boosted crit damage for the Dwarf racial for specs that rely heavily on crits). But that isn't a secondary stat either since Amp was removed.

I don't feel super keen on the "secondary stats will be fine" talking point since some of these number boosting racials aren't related to secondary stats at all.


idk as of current raid now its better for some classes and spec its better to go pure secondary stats (like my paladin favors haste) than just going normal primary stats.


That's fine but your Paladin isn't a Hunter.
100 Dwarf Priest
18400
03/03/2014 12:15 PMPosted by Aeolyn
...

idk as of current raid now its better for some classes and spec its better to go pure secondary stats (like my paladin favors haste) than just going normal primary stats.


That's fine but your Paladin isn't a Hunter.


true :P
100 Pandaren Monk
16815
03/03/2014 12:12 PMPosted by Masmurdious
Very disappointing to see so many races have multiple useful abilities while Undeads are getting their only one nerfed. Let's be honest, touch of the grave does almost nothing.


It was tweeted previously that TotG is getting some scaling adjustments.
100 Tauren Warrior
8435
Yeah seriously why aren't undead getting any of this crit haste love unless y'all plan to boost touch of the grave which is honestly useless and does nothing.
90 Worgen Druid
10050
03/03/2014 12:03 PMPosted by Celestalon
Additionally, we do still want there to be some difference and choice between the racial abilities, which does mean that players who want to min/max to that degree may still find more value in another race.


But that is exactly what you are guys are not doing. What difference is there in having the same exact racials as another race where your instant in the long run is out weighed by a passive before the cooldown has elapsed. Yes I am still talking about the speed boost in Worgen and Night Elves. I find it very inane that you want to have there be a difference and unique yet give something that is supposed to make a race unique and hand it right over to another in a bettered form thus making them superior. I don't play the game to number crunch nor have I ever, but Blizzard, take a look at the Worgen racials and the revised Night Elf racials. My proposal is to give Worgen an instant that is actually fitting to their class and make darkflight into the passive that it should have been (Of course not at 40% all of the time, possibly the 2%)

On a completely unrelated note, I for one am looking forward to WoD when Dwarves will finally be around in PvE! Hope to possibly nab some for Mythics!
100 Dwarf Monk
10655
03/03/2014 12:03 PMPosted by Celestalon
Regarding Touch of Elune, we're making all secondary stats useful to everyone (aside from Spirit for non-healers and Bonus Armor for non-tanks), and more closely balancing their value. As others have pointed out, there are no more haste breakpoints, so this doesn’t imply any gear changes should be made based on time of day.

[/quote]

I'd really like more information on secondary stat homogenization. If crit=haste give or take minuscule percents, are all character builds being based on the new tertiary stats? Is this just the evolution of the game with stats and itemization to devalue those to make way for newer ones?

If this is the case, why are you still forcing spirit to healers? Why not let us have more fun with the newer tertiary stats instead of keeping our class design in the past?
100 Night Elf Hunter
19115
03/03/2014 12:23 PMPosted by Ianmccloud
On a completely unrelated note, I for one am looking forward to WoD when Dwarves will finally be around in PvE! Hope to possibly nab some for Mythics!


and PVP. Stoneform is now effectively Cloak of Shadows.

Actually Cloak of Shadows doesn't remove bleeds and Stoneform does.

So. Yeah.
100 Dwarf Shaman
15720
03/03/2014 12:06 PMPosted by Plezuré
So why are dwarves getting a 2% increase to a secondary stat while the rest of the races are only getting a 1% increase. Seems really unfair to everyone else and OP for them.

Because it's crit damage/healing, not crit chance.

2% crit damage doesn't provide as much damage as 1% crit chance until your character has 25% average crit chance with its attacks, and that assumes your spec doesn't derive any other bonuses "on crit" (e.g. enhancement shaman flurry, or mage heating up, or etc.)

(y - 1) + 2(x + 1) = y + 1.02*2x
x + y = 100
=> x = 25, y = 75

If they go through with agility and intellect no longer granting melee/spell crit chance, like this tweet implies: https://twitter.com/Celestalon/status/421044546034622466

... then that'd make reaching 25% average crit chance fairly difficult for most specs, unless crit chance from non-gear sources (base crit chance, spec-specific abilities or auto-crits, raid buff/debuff, etc.) becomes more common. It's entirely possible that they have something like that planned, so it's too early to make any firm conclusions, but the information we have available to us so far would imply that the crit damage racials are actually on the weak end of the spectrum, and especially so at the beginning of the expansion.
Edited by Purge on 3/3/2014 2:16 PM PST
90 Undead Priest
10700
03/03/2014 11:37 AMPosted by Coldbrand
Hey guys, let's give a race a glyphed Cloak of Shadows for EVERYTHING, that seems fair right?

This is brutally out of line for rogue pvp. I have no idea what the devs are thinking giving a race a cloak of shadows.......wow.
90 Pandaren Shaman
15675
I know that you mention that Pandaren racials wont be changing, but this is my one and only concern, which is something that happens even now. Pandaren essentially "lose" their (important) racial in a fight if they are killed and then later battle rezzed, whereas no other race ever faces losing their racial attributes.

Additionally, I'm sure most people aren't using important stat-foods out in the world questing/leveling/doing dailies (aside from cheap vendor food perhaps) that Pandaren don't get their racial in those capacities either, while all the other races maintain some sort of racial buff everywhere.

Could the Pandaren racial be tweaked in such a way that we have "Full Bellies" or something so that we can keep the food buff equivalent (so not double food buff) or some portion of it all the time? Maybe having a "Hungry" buff to represent it before eating food or while not having eaten food, the same "Well Fed" buff once food is eaten, and then a "Still Full" buff if you are killed and then rezzed in a fight? I really like being a panda, but it's kinda annoying that no one else loses their racial like we do.

Thoughts?
Edited by Risami on 3/3/2014 12:35 PM PST
85 Night Elf Druid
9000
03/03/2014 12:14 PMPosted by Ovvns
Top 100 in 3v3 there are 3 or 4 humans.. EMFH IS SO OP


Yeah, odds are for 99% of the players, like me, the racial is not holding you back from your goals.

Just play what you like and don't be a dirty sheep.
100 Troll Shaman
9795
I came to this game before Molten Core after some friends of mine brought a gaming guide on WoW to work. I remember scanning the racials on both the Horde and the Alliance, I noticed a trend towards defense on the side of the Alliance racials (e.g., Stoneform) and offense on the side of the Horde (e.g., Berserking). The original WoW racials for Trolls read like a report on Wolverine. I decided right then and there, if I was going to play, I was going to be a Troll.

You could go into a Berserker Rage through the Berserking racial, but it was only if you took damage to the face. It was relatively useful to casters outside of soloing and in PvP.

You could regenerate health as if you had a healing factor, but then I learned that the healing factor was turned all the way down, particularly for casters. The jokes of gaining 5 hp per second eventually became well-known. The one time a year the racial was actually useful was a time of much rejoicing.

You could also throw daggers and things really well. Only, next to no one actually threw anything. Essentially, this racial was worthless to everyone, even Hunters, which seemed odd. We just kind of went with it though. We accepted the suckiness of throwing specialization because of the one thing that actually worked...

Beastslaying! It was the one Troll racial that has always been a source of pleasure. I have always tended to choose my leveling zones based on the number of beasts present -- not due to efficiency, but due to the pleasure of knowing that I was in my element. I was a ruthless killer among fellow ruthless killers, but my killing reigned supreme.

I first noticed the potential problem of Beastslaying in the Serpentshrine Cavern instance against the Lurker Below. This boss provided me with a 5% bonus to damage against him. I soon also noticed that against Feral Druids in PVP, my damage numbers seemed to be a bit higher as well. This imbalance, on some level, made me smile with glee. I often clogged vent by shouting "Beastslaying!" in BGs or in SSC.

Blizzard countered this, of course, and increasingly bosses were added to instances that looked like Beasts but weren't categorized as such. On one hand, this felt cheap, but I understood that they needed to do what they needed to do to keep things fair. However, over time, this lack of labeling as a Beast became quite inconsistent.

The issue with Beastslaying is not that it was rarely useful; In PVE, Voodoo Shuffle and other situational, passive racials (e.g., Hardiness or resistance racials) are rarely useful, but Blizzard has stood by those abilities just fine. Profession bonuses are arguably the most rarely useful, and yet, they persist. The issue is that when Beastslaying was useful, it provided a compelling advantages in valued content, such as raid instances (particularly Troll themed ones). I understand that this was a problem. However, I despise the solution.

If the issue is with Beastslaying's bonus in instances and/or PVP, why not confine the solution to these places?

By simultaneously nerfing Berserking (which is understandable), removing the damage from Beastslaying, and removing the flavor bonus for Hunters (which was understandable), the Troll theme of being killers has been removed as has their status as the mastery of the jungle (or the Savage Lands).

These moves feel as though my Wolverine has been de-clawed -- not just in performance but in theme as well. That is where my issue lies. This is a change to address big problems that also removes those little moments of fun. What I want is a version of Beastslaying that boosts damage against grinding mobs to come back (and maybe against Feral Druids and/or Hunter pets). However, what I don't want is a version that tips the scales in favor of Trolls in raiding PVE or even competitive PVP due to this flavor racial. Prohibiting Beastslaying from working against raid bosses (and possibly against players) should be adequate. Lowering the bonus when Beastslaying does work (to around 1-3%) may also help to allow for Beastslaying to continue working on Beast classified trash mobs.

At the very least, adding even a 1% damage bonus (while excluding raid bosses from this bonus by simply not classifying them as Beasts) on top of the compromised version of Beastslaying would give the old timer players something for memory's sake. It's not that I hate the bonus exp proposal. I'm just not ready to say goodbye to all of those Beastslaying memories.
Edited by Bosako on 3/3/2014 12:44 PM PST
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