Simplifying currency? That's the grand plan?

100 Draenei Death Knight
12980
What people don't realize is that RNG keeps people doing content. It keeps people coming back to stuff instead of clearing it a few times and never having to do it again.

Think about it, if you were guaranteed everything that you needed on your character in 10 runs of the same raid, would you ever do it again? Most would answer "no" to that because there would be no need to run it. The slower people clear content and get everything they want out of it, the longer they'll keep playing...unless it is absolutely ridiculously slow which it is not.

But, nevertheless, I do not like them removing the raid/dungeon currency for I agree that RNG can be a turd.
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90 Troll Druid
12270
03/03/2014 09:33 AMPosted by Derah
So..... you're actually admitting you guys just enjoy tormenting us by stirring the pot?


If you want to play a victim, sometimes you have to accept that people will follow along and make you a victim.
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90 Draenei Paladin
16515
Okay this is a load.

I was actually hoping Valor vendors would return next expansion to help us out with bad luck since this Tier hasn't had anything like that.

I'm still using Throne of Thunder boots all this time later and bonus rolls haven't done a damn thing for that.

The currency system is fine, keep Valor vendors.

RNG on top of RNG does not help bad luck Blizzard. How you come to such conclusions time and time again really does boggle the mind.
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100 Tauren Paladin
5840
I don't mind the bad RNG....just instead of duplicating the item for me just give me the Sha Crystal. That way I can collect those, make some money, etc....all while I'm waiting for my drop. I don't mind waiting if I'm getting richer.
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100 Pandaren Monk
13885
03/03/2014 09:00 AMPosted by Bashiok
(or in the case of character models, actual butts)


Speaking of which, my butt sticks out too much while flying Pandaren kites and that trash can lid thing from the Lorewalkers. Could you drop everything and fix that?
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Blizzard Employee
I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree there.

When it comes to controversial changes, posting only the BAD half of the full picture just to get a (mostly negative) reaction is not the right way.

Want to get people talking? Post some of the stuff we can be HAPPY about. While we don't need to know everything all the time, getting only the bad side with none of the good doesn't do any favors to anyone either.


Well, actually, good news doesn't really create much interest, if you want to dissect it. But that's beside the point. We're obviously not intentionally releasing bad or angering information to try to get people riled up. That'd be silly. We do want to try to manage expectations. Letting people know far in advance that currencies are being streamlined gets that into people's brain meats early, and gives it time to sink in so that when they start seeing or playing that change it ideally isn't jarring and upsetting at that moment.

My point was that people discussing a change they have partial information about, debating the specifics, and questioning what it means, are not necessarily negatives. In cases where those are becoming destructive we'll generally try to provide some guidance to at least direct it back to a constructive conversation.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
14470
03/03/2014 10:11 AMPosted by Bashiok
good news doesn't really create much interest,

Guess all the news about model updates hasn't created much interest and no one ever posts threads when there is an announcement about the new skins.
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03/03/2014 10:11 AMPosted by Bashiok
We're obviously not intentionally releasing bad or angering information to try to get people riled up.


Consider me.... Riled. 8)
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100 Tauren Druid
15120
interesting anyway.

This will remove the need to grind dungeons for valor.

Just for drops and when you have them or no longer need the drops, you will only run them for buddies.

I dunno, I may like this change depending upon how it is handled. I do not miss grinding valor and after the first week of 5.4 I did not have to do any dungeons for valor. I try keep 1000 or so on hand for upgrades, then run my alts.

So I actually like the upgrade gear for valor but that was not mentioned in there, but that probably is a moot point anyway with the removal of raid currency.

I will somewhat miss converting spare justice to honor for mounts and some gear but that was kind of a side benefit anyway.

I did not see where heirlooms fit into this. Just sell them for gold I reckon...
Edited by Lonebull on 3/3/2014 10:19 AM PST
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Blizzard Employee
03/03/2014 10:14 AMPosted by Hydroponics
03/03/2014 10:11 AMPosted by Bashiok
good news doesn't really create much interest,

Guess all the news about model updates hasn't created much interest and no one ever posts threads when there is an announcement about the new skins.


Oh, definitely a lot of positive interest. You might also notice how the majority of conversation though is someone saying they don't like something, and others arguing with them over it. It's generally not capped thread after capped thread of love letters. :)
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
14470
03/03/2014 10:22 AMPosted by Bashiok
03/03/2014 10:14 AMPosted by Hydroponics
...
Guess all the news about model updates hasn't created much interest and no one ever posts threads when there is an announcement about the new skins.


Oh, definitely a lot of positive interest. You might also notice how the majority of conversation though is someone saying they don't like something, and others arguing with them over it. It's generally not capped thread after capped thread of love letters. :)

I think the word you are looking for is debate.

Good news is confirmed (unless it was paid 90's that had a lot of debate), so there isn't really to much to debate about it.

But when you have sketchy feature such as the currency one proposed with little information about it of course it will stir more threads.

The point is, it has nothing to do with interest it has everything to do with how much a topic can be debated.
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100 Blood Elf Death Knight
16875
03/03/2014 10:11 AMPosted by Bashiok
I guess we're gonna have to agree to disagree there.

When it comes to controversial changes, posting only the BAD half of the full picture just to get a (mostly negative) reaction is not the right way.

Want to get people talking? Post some of the stuff we can be HAPPY about. While we don't need to know everything all the time, getting only the bad side with none of the good doesn't do any favors to anyone either.


We're obviously not intentionally releasing bad or angering information to try to get people riled up. That'd be silly.


Fair enough. I'll admit my wording was overreacting. However...

good news doesn't really create much interest


I still disagree. You guys announced transmog and everyone rejoiced. You guys announced Flex and everyone rejoiced. You guys announced Pet Battles and everyone (Ok not everyone, but quite a lot of people anyways) rejoiced.

All of these features generated talk, and discussion, and speculation. Specially transmog since for a while all we had to go on was a single screenshot.

There is interest to be had in a good feature. And I feel that is where the focus of news should be. ON the stuff that's gonna make us happy. Maybe the new system IS going to make us happy, but until you can provide a clear picture that will make that a reality, simply saying "Yeah, your VP is going away" isn't gonna make many people smile.

My point was that people discussing a change they have partial information about, debating the specifics, and questioning what it means, are not necessarily negatives.


Maybe. And for more trivial aspects of the game I'd even agree. But this is a very touchy subject, loot is VERY important for everyone who plays this game.
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90 Goblin Mage
19515
03/03/2014 09:00 AMPosted by Bashiok
Many people enjoy being upset and arguing about ifs, ands, or buts (or in the case of character models, actual butts).

A quiet and content forum is a sad and wanting thing.


I don't think its about enjoying being upset, but confusion might cause anger. Thanks for responding back. I actually agree with all the points you made after my remark, but I was commenting on the lot of ppl who don't understand or feel how we do.
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100 Night Elf Rogue
12940
03/03/2014 10:06 AMPosted by Lahgtah
What people don't realize is that RNG keeps people doing content. It keeps people coming back to stuff instead of clearing it a few times and never having to do it again.

Think about it, if you were guaranteed everything that you needed on your character in 10 runs of the same raid, would you ever do it again? Most would answer "no" to that because there would be no need to run it. The slower people clear content and get everything they want out of it, the longer they'll keep playing...unless it is absolutely ridiculously slow which it is not.

But, nevertheless, I do not like them removing the raid/dungeon currency for I agree that RNG can be a turd.


Pretty much this ^

And it's not like they can churn out a new dungeon or new boss every week. Did it suck back in vanilla to farm Scholomance 20+ times before getting my Shadowcraft Cap (ninja!) to drop and successfully win the roll? Yes! But it was still fun, and there was always the thrill of thinking "maybe tonight is the night!", rather than just buying it from a vendor.

To be honest, I really don't like currencies in games other than gold.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
6790
Personally I'd rather have the suspense of "Maybe it'll drop today!" than something else to grind.

Whenever I want a piece of valor gear for an upgrade, it's just a boring slog through dungeons until I have enough valor. At least when I'm going for a drop from a particular boss there is some suspense and excitement.
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- Hearthstone
100 Tauren Paladin
12695
03/03/2014 09:33 AMPosted by Derah
03/03/2014 09:00 AMPosted by Bashiok
...

Many people enjoy being upset and arguing about ifs, ands, or buts (or in the case of character models, actual butts).

A quiet and content forum is a sad and wanting thing.


So..... you're actually admitting you guys just enjoy tormenting us by stirring the pot?

That is SO not cool man. In fact I find it very unprofessional. While I understand a quiet forum is a sad thing, purposefully pissing off your loyal customers and fans, just to get people talking is mean spirited and spiteful.

Do you really hold us in that low regard that you enjoy making us feel bad like this?

I expected better for some reason.


I actually enjoy being tormented with trickles of information. Makes the final reveal that much more exciting.
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90 Pandaren Shaman
10105


Still i think what you guys had going in BC was the best platform. Theres no reason to not be able to add hard modes and challenges and scenarios and whatnot with a Badge of Justice currency. Just the 1 currency used for all pve. Dropped by heroic 5 man bosses and raid bosses. And whatever allocation method there is for scenarios. create 1 full set of gear equal to the mid range tier set, just make sure it is at least 1 tier less than the max lvl set. Reserve the true best gear for the hard mode raiders since they work for it. But have this full BoJ gear set purchasable from a vendor. This stuff can be purchased over time by ppl who do not raid/raid little. Or more rapidly as interim fillers for the dedicated raider while they try for thier specific hard mode slot items.
.......


The issue with TBC was rewarding people with gear upgrades for defeating out dated and inferior content in relation to said rewards. That creates an environment where players are progressing in gear power yet they remain static in terms of skill progression. You don't want an environment where you encourage players to stop progressing through harder content.

It's tough to use a currency for gear model in a game with 4 Raid levels per Tier, Heroic 5 mans, Normal 5 mans and Scenarios. If you use one currency what's the iLevel of gear at the Vendor? If it's LFR level then it's nothing more than a place holder for players in the other 3 types of Raiding and marginalizes the need to run Heroic 5 mans. If it's higher than LFR then LFR drops become less relevant to those players in that content and the same holds true no matter what the iLevel.

There needs to be a way to minimize RNG and bad luck streaks while still rewarding players in a fashion that matches the level of content they happen to enjoy but also encourages them to try to move on to the next level in order to further progress their character.
Edited by Indyana on 3/3/2014 11:22 AM PST
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90 Undead Priest
4950
03/03/2014 11:20 AMPosted by Bodo
Wrath was cool, you could do heroics and get previous tier sets.


I'm not entirely sure Wrath is my personal ideal setup but anything is better than just adding more and more rng randomness to the game. For those of us who weren't born with 4 leaf clovers shoved up our backsides anything that provides a definite reward for a prescribed effort is a godsend. Its bad enough we are going to be at the mercy of the Diablo style loot drops but "streamlining" currency and pawning that off onto more random loot rolls is a killer.
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10 Blood Elf Paladin
10
here is the problem. the game revolves around raids only, since dungeons dont exist anymore, and new ones dont get made.

I DO NOT WANT TO DO LFR TO CAP VALOR.

please.

just buff normal/heroic valor. or make new dungeons so i'm not bored out of my skull doing it. as for valor vendors, we need them. I have been killing heroics with a flex trinket, since 10 man loot is so awful. we need more options, to make up for crappy RNG.
Edited by Sanctifìed on 3/3/2014 11:33 AM PST
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