Simplifying currency? That's the grand plan?

90 Undead Priest
4950
03/02/2014 07:36 PMPosted by Shamaladin
I liked the BC currency method. There was the pvp currencies for pvp, and there was Badge of Justice for everything else/ You got 1 badge for a dungeon boss on heroic, i dont remember how many for a raid boss it may have been more. Raids also had select bosses with the tier set tokens. If you ran your raids and couldnt find the slot you needed to fill, there was the isle with its vendor that sold BoJ items. These items werent cheap, if you didnt run alot you could take a couple weeks to get a slot upgrade but the work was paid with a reward.

Dumping EVERYTHING onto rng takes all the sense of effort = reward and throws it into space. 1 person can do 1 run and get all the luck and all the gear, another can do 1000 runs and see nothing, thats not in any way how effort = reward should be


Couldn't agree more. Working toward a definite goal where if I do X and Y or Z I can get A or B at the end is much more satisfying than doing X, Y, and Z over and over and over and getting nothing but enchanting mats for my troubles.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
6955
03/02/2014 06:57 PMPosted by Anikyre

Yep. I'd really love to have plans/patterns for every slot at 553 on my BS/LW toons....


03/02/2014 07:02 PMPosted by Baneus

Not to fill every slot though. If every profession had the ability to craft entry level gear for LFR the game would be a lot less annoying.


As would I which is why I mentioned it. Most other MMO's allow crafters to make FULL sets of gear in their chosen field. It's not as great as the upper tier of their version of raids but they are decent alternatives if you either want to fill a slot temporarily or just don't want to fuss with certain aspects. It won't ever be as great as a heroic set of gear since it won't have a set bonus and won't be "perfectly" itimized like some people want but it would be a viable alternative.

I'm really hoping that when Lore mentioned the "sweeping crafting changes" that were coming with WoD he meant that the crafting proffs will actually be useful. It's deplorable that they languish like that. Yes I can make a set while I'm questing but that's not what a proff is supposed to do. They are supposed to provide an alternative to certain aspects and allow you, through work, to craft gear for your characters that is pretty good. WoW's crafting system is pathetic. You get a few high level patterns to make, 2 in the case of tailoring, and then diddly squat. That isn't crafting. That's tossing scraps at something that they claim to embrace but yet kick in the rear.

If they gave crafting proff's the FULL patterns each raid tier that were as good or a little better then LFR then that would provide alternatives. I could faceroll through LFR or I could spend a week or so and get a piece of gear that way. Next tier, same thing. etc. With the final raid tier of that expansion I would have cooldowns that lasted for two or so weeks to make one piece of gear (Like the current belt/pants) that way I could wait that whole time or I could try Flex to get a bit better gear while saving the mats to fill in with an item I crafted that I couldn't get. There is so much potential in crafting as a viable catch up mechanic if they REALLY want to scrap the point system and leave it just for the "bump up" system it's used for now. The fact that it languishes when other games have a thriving and balanced full crafting scene is quite hilarious.
Edited by Ashendal on 3/3/2014 5:48 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9965
03/02/2014 09:03 PMPosted by Nassins
03/02/2014 08:43 PMPosted by Indyana
There's LFR, Normal Flex (current Flex), Heroic Flex (current Normal), Mythic (20 man only and the equivalent of current Heroic Raids).


That's still 4 raids you have to run.

My point is that the game does not need more than two raid difficulties IMO.

My other point is that you should be able to go straight from Heroic 5 mans to what WoD will call Heroic Flex.


You're free to do that in WoD if you think your Raid is capable. World Firster types have been downing Heroic Bosses in Heroic Blues and a few drops from the first week of Normal for years. The thing is most players need the gear. Since Heroic Flex is Normal you may be able to handle it so go for it.

No one is making you do all the Raids. Blizzard's design for WoD is Heroic 5's > Normal Raid > Heroic Raid for the majority of players doing organized Raiding. LFR is for a different type of player and Mythic is for the top Tier Guilds.
Edited by Indyana on 3/3/2014 6:25 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12535
Not gonna read all 9 pages... Just responding to the attitude of the OP...

Over the years, Blizz has made gearing up more and more efficient and easy that today's players are now a bunch of whiny, spoiled, entitled brats.

That is all...
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
6955
03/03/2014 06:28 AMPosted by Leinela
Not gonna read all 9 pages... Just responding to the attitude of the OP...

Over the years, Blizz has made gearing up more and more efficient and easy that today's players are now a bunch of whiny, spoiled, entitled brats.

That is all...


You should probably read all 9 pages then or re-look at what I said. I'm not asking for free stuff so therefore your "entitled" response holds no merit. Reading comprehension is a valuable skill that serves people well in the real world.
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Community Manager
We're not quite ready yet to talk specifics, but the plan is not to just remove currencies, let bonus rolls stay as-is, and expect everything will work out fine. We're keenly aware of how gearing works in the game. I think the changes we have planned will assuage your fears once we are ready to lay it out.

(It's pretty cool. I think you'll like it.)
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90 Human Paladin
14045
As someone who has killed Galkaras/Juggernaut/Thok 7 times each and bonus rolled on them all 7 times and still seen no trinket from any of the bosses (42 chances at loot), I can't say which system is better or worse. I can say though that, at the current state of the game, Valor points are far and away the least exciting currency that I could acquire (I would rather get Justice Points, honestly, as they are infinitely more useful. How weird is that?).
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
6955
03/03/2014 08:30 AMPosted by Bashiok
We're not quite ready yet to talk specifics, but the plan is not to just remove currencies, let bonus rolls stay as-is, and expect everything will work out fine. We're keenly aware of how gearing works in the game. I think the changes we have planned will assuage your fears once we are ready to lay it out.

(It's pretty cool. I think you'll like it.)


Thank you. As long as the entire thing is not fully RNG based then it should hopefully work out. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when someone states that "yeah we like the RNG system" after all these years.
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90 Blood Elf Priest
12535
03/03/2014 08:23 AMPosted by Ashendal
03/03/2014 06:28 AMPosted by Leinela
Not gonna read all 9 pages... Just responding to the attitude of the OP...

Over the years, Blizz has made gearing up more and more efficient and easy that today's players are now a bunch of whiny, spoiled, entitled brats.

That is all...


You should probably read all 9 pages then or re-look at what I said. I'm not asking for free stuff so therefore your "entitled" response holds no merit. Reading comprehension is a valuable skill that serves people well in the real world.


No need to read all 9 pages imo, you summed up your views in your original post, which is what I am responding too...

You hate RNG and basically want high end gear handed to you on a silver platter...

Unless I can invest resources into Tailoring, Blacksmithing, Leather Working, and the others to get decent gear to make up for the horrible nature of the RNG this will basically halt all efforts I make to play end game raid content anymore since it'll be pointless.


And you go on to state that you want the ability to craft FULL SETS of this high end gear, because basically RNG sucks.

I do agree that sometimes RNG sucks, but I think without it, the game would be a total snooze fest, period. Why bother putting any effort in if you are basically going to be given everything?

Seriously, you get a bonus roll now. Perhaps you don't remember back in BC and prior? We didn't even have VPs or JPs or Bonus rolls (we were entirely at the mercy of RNG), yet people still proclaim that those times were the best of WoW. Go figure...

Your attitude is basically Blizz, give me w..t..f.. I want or I'm gonna quit, so yes, I would call you a whiny, entitled brat... Go ahead and quit for all I care, I get tired of people like you who wants everything now now now and who thinks putting forth effort is queueing up for lfr and afking through it.

03/03/2014 08:35 AMPosted by Ashendal
It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when someone states that "yeah we like the RNG system" after all these years.


I never said I LIKE RNG, but as you say, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when players complain about how hard it is to gear up in this expac when it's infinitely the most easy it's ever been to gear up than it ever has before.
Edited by Leinela on 3/3/2014 8:39 AM PST
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90 Human Mage
13530
03/03/2014 08:30 AMPosted by Bashiok
We're not quite ready yet to talk specifics, but the plan is not to just remove currencies, let bonus rolls stay as-is, and expect everything will work out fine. We're keenly aware of how gearing works in the game. I think the changes we have planned will assuage your fears once we are ready to lay it out.

(It's pretty cool. I think you'll like it.)


You've just given the keep reforging crowd all the ammo they need to convince the masses that they were right.
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03/03/2014 08:30 AMPosted by Bashiok
We're not quite ready yet to talk specifics, but the plan is not to just remove currencies, let bonus rolls stay as-is, and expect everything will work out fine. We're keenly aware of how gearing works in the game. I think the changes we have planned will assuage your fears once we are ready to lay it out.

(It's pretty cool. I think you'll like it.)


Speaking of simplifying currency, can we get rid of copper and silver? It's so annoying to have them in the game when nothing costs copper/silver and most people round up to the nearest gold.

Please and thanks.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
6955
03/03/2014 08:35 AMPosted by Leinela
No need to read all 9 pages imo, you summed up your views in your original post, which is what I am responding too...

You hate RNG and basically want high end gear handed to you on a silver platter...

How is, "I want to work for it and put in the same amount of relative time spent while farming mats and performing cooldowns" a "silverplatter". If I wanted that I'd faceroll through LFR and do minimal DPS every week just for loot. No. I want another way to earn the gear. Just because it's not from a raid doesn't mean it's handed to you. LFR is handed to you. I want to do other things to earn gear that is less strong then Flex.

03/03/2014 08:35 AMPosted by Leinela
And you go on to state that you want the ability to craft FULL SETS of this high end gear, because basically RNG sucks.

I do agree that sometimes RNG sucks, but I think without it, the game would be a total snooze fest, period. Why bother putting any effort in if you are basically going to be given everything?

Seriously, you get a bonus roll now. Perhaps you don't remember back in BC and prior? We didn't even have VPs or JPs or Bonus rolls (we were entirely at the mercy of RNG), yet people still proclaim that those times were the best of WoW. Go figure...


Some of us, as others have stated in the thread, don't feel the same way. We enjoy having a set time frame in which to plan out and work towards gear. Random is great sometimes. When the only way to do anything is to have something randomly decide it's time that gets really really tedious really really quickly. How many times are you willing to spend time doing the same thing for hours at a time for nothing returned before you finally get sick of it?

People may proclaim it but most of the population hated that kind of thing with a passion. If you read the "bring back vanilla servers!" threads you'll see that most of the players enjoyed the game at the time because this was all there was. As more changes and tweaks were made it allowed for more things to do. The rose tinted glasses need to come off in terms of "it was better back when I had to walk uphill, both ways, through the snow, barefoot, with thorns in my ankles". Time invested is just as much of a payment as sitting there at the whim of computerized dice.

03/03/2014 08:35 AMPosted by Leinela
Your attitude is basically Blizz, give me w..t..f.. I want or I'm gonna quit, so yes, I would call you a whiny, entitled brat... Go ahead and quit for all I care, I get tired of people like you who wants everything now now now and who thinks putting forth effort is queueing up for lfr and afking through it.


No it's not. It never was. It was explaining that the current system sucks in terms of relying on something that is a horrible design choice to base everything off of. I never said I'd quit. I'm tired of people like you not being able to allow others to have a view point and resorting to calling me a whiner. I can only state so many times I want to put work into things, not just "gimmie". I'm fine with doing dailies and having cooldowns and doing things other then hitting a boss and waiting for stuff to drop. I don't go into LFR and AFK through it. You obviously didn't want to seriously read anything, wanted to put out a "no you're wrong, gtfo" statement, and don't want to actually read the thread and see the arguments on both sides that have been stated. I can't help your choices but I'd ask that you not try to completely shoot down mine when you apparently have no understanding of anything I was trying to convey.
Edited by Ashendal on 3/3/2014 8:47 AM PST
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90 Pandaren Shaman
9965
...............
I'm really hoping that when Lore mentioned the "sweeping crafting changes" that were coming with WoD he meant that the crafting proffs will actually be useful. It's deplorable that they languish like that. Yes I can make a set while I'm questing but that's not what a proff is supposed to do. They are supposed to provide an alternative to certain aspects and allow you, through work, to craft gear for your characters that is pretty good. WoW's crafting system is pathetic. .........


The crafting system IS pathetic but in my experience it's tough to design a game around Boss drops for gear upgrades and a robust crafting system at the same time. One or the other will be the "best" way to gear up which marginalizes the other.

A great example was the Spellfire and Spellstrike crafted items from BC. I had the whole set on my Mage prior to entering Kara and I used it until he started getting T5 gear. It allowed me to totally skip upgrades in T4 content.
Edited by Indyana on 3/3/2014 8:51 AM PST
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90 Goblin Mage
19385
03/03/2014 08:30 AMPosted by Bashiok
We're not quite ready yet to talk specifics, but the plan is not to just remove currencies, let bonus rolls stay as-is, and expect everything will work out fine. We're keenly aware of how gearing works in the game. I think the changes we have planned will assuage your fears once we are ready to lay it out.

(It's pretty cool. I think you'll like it.)


Until you are ready to talk about it, its doing you guys a disservice talking about half of the big picture. You're causing more chaos than anything. Im a normal/heroic player and I don't get to hung up on gear (Im used to RNG from D&D days), but as you can see, a lot of people get confused and frustrated at it.
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90 Orc Warlock
16265
Blizzard could have done allot to make the current system work even in MoP, but it was clear they were ready to make changes when Justice Points were left to rot after the first tier. Actually useful items could have been moved onto that currency to make it relevant in the second/third tier but they never were essentially killing the currency of use beyond heirlooms and using it for honor.

Even on my fresh 90's it loses its value after a week. A WEEK.

I will say that having to true valor items to help with bad luck in SPECIFIC slots is a real problem that needs to be fixed, even if the vendor items arrn't itemized well its still better then waiting for months with no options expect stupid bonus rolls. My monk has been waiting for 1.5 months on any sort of shoulder/ring/trinket option
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90 Draenei Shaman
4610
03/03/2014 08:30 AMPosted by Bashiok
We're not quite ready yet to talk specifics, but the plan is not to just remove currencies, let bonus rolls stay as-is, and expect everything will work out fine. We're keenly aware of how gearing works in the game. I think the changes we have planned will assuage your fears once we are ready to lay it out.

(It's pretty cool. I think you'll like it.)


Great. Can't wait.
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90 Human Warrior
7945
03/02/2014 05:00 PMPosted by Indyana
....
Artificial lengthening of content.


...and to some it's less fun.

Killing a Boss and seeing that loot you've been waiting for is still a great thrill. Getting a token and going to some random NPC to finally buy that piece you've seen in his inventory is pretty meh IMO.


If you get it on your first kill, it probably is.
If you get it on your 10th+ kill, then it's less "thrill" and more "relief" that you don't have to rely on the vagaries of an RNG for your gear progression.

Unfortunately, the latter seems to be more common than the former. So overall, it's just one more straw on the proverbial camel.

And keep in mind, the "token" process is already in the game: Tier tokens and Garrosh's "any tier piece" token. I don't think anyone considers those "meh".
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
14205
Problem with RNG is that if you don't roll the right number, you're SOL, and since each roll is just as random, it can keep happening. Eventually, you can fall behind everyone else and end up carried or not able to compete due purely to random factors.
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90 Blood Elf Mage
11730
03/03/2014 08:30 AMPosted by Bashiok
I think the changes we have planned will assuage your fears once we are ready to lay it out.


I hope so. I'm really tired of getting the same helm and cloak every time I roll for my trinket. Well, at least I finally got the flex version, but it's still annoying to get gold or the same two items on normal that I don't need and have better already.

Seriously, I think just my group alone could open up an armor shop of the duplicates we've gotten on bonus rolls or the random loot we get from Flex.
Edited by Kaeilthas on 3/3/2014 9:07 AM PST
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90 Human Mage
13530
03/03/2014 08:57 AMPosted by Kaeilthas
03/03/2014 08:30 AMPosted by Bashiok
I think the changes we have planned will assuage your fears once we are ready to lay it out.


I hope so. I'm really tired of getting the same helm and cloak every time I roll for my trinket. Well, at least I finally got the flex version, but it's still annoying to get gold or the same two items on normal that I don't need and have better already.


I keep blowing all my tokens on the 4th boss in SoO for a healing trinket. =/
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