Templar's Noodle

80 Blood Elf Death Knight
2465
Ret went from being the best melee vs armor by default to the worst. I don't see how blizzard nerfed all rets holy damage and buffed mutilate and envenom.

Yesterday I was cold blood envenom'd for 13k on my 1350 resilience. Fair.

I want my finisher to be that good.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7785
Ret went from being the best melee vs armor by default to the worst. I don't see how blizzard nerfed all rets holy damage and buffed mutilate and envenom.

Yesterday I was cold blood envenom'd for 13k on my 1350 resilience. Fair.

I want my finisher to be that good.


I thought Hammer of Wrath was your finisher? And it DOES hit stupid hard.


Well mr duelist death knight I suggest you do some research on the combo point system before you argue against me. You look like an idiot. Thanks!
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10155
It's rather bland for our level 10 spec defining ability. It pretty much is a glorified white hit that uses 3HP and hits for 235% weapon damage. If Blizz buffed white hits to hit as hard as TV, I doubt many would be able to tell when they are getting hit by TV and an auto attack.

I don't know if the ability needs for damage or not, I'll wait until I get to 85. I have heard that it scales better than most of our abilities. It just inherited crusader strikes problem, it doesn't have anything that gives it flare. I doesn't do anything that says, "I'm bringing the pain and this is why bro!" I'd love for part of it's damage to be holy, fits the specs flavor, makes it work with IQ and opens the door other passive mastery options (if the devs agree that HoL just doesn't cut it for what a mastery is suppose to be).
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7785
The problem I have with TV is that for its reliability it doesn't put out the damage that a reliable word heals for.

Its value doesn't shine over word at all especially with the ms nerf.
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100 Draenei Paladin
18380
The problem I have with TV is that for its reliability it doesn't put out the damage that a reliable word heals for.

Its value doesn't shine over word at all especially with the ms nerf.


Wow, that was a fairly quick about face from WoG not healing enough weighed against TV. (Not from you directly, just the general banter about ret finishers).
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
8055
but guys!!!! if they made TV holy damage inquisition might actually be good for ret pvp!
we dont want that now do we? i mean honestly between 80-85 we dont gain a single spell that will really shine in ret pvp.

...derp guardian=more ramp up time yay
Edited by Squishmittin on 12/2/2010 10:28 AM PST
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85 Human Rogue
5520
Ret went from being the best melee vs armor by default to the worst. I don't see how blizzard nerfed all rets holy damage and buffed mutilate and envenom.

Yesterday I was cold blood envenom'd for 13k on my 1350 resilience. Fair.

I want my finisher to be that good.


I thought Hammer of Wrath was your finisher? And it DOES hit stupid hard.


Well mr duelist death knight I suggest you do some research on the combo point system before you argue against me. You look like an idiot. Thanks!

And I'd suggest you realize you're not Rogues. You don't have "Combo Points", nor are your skills intended to be "Finishers"(which is a misleading label for Rogue abilities anyways. Unless you're trying to tell me Expose Armor, Slice and Dice, Recuperate, and Rupture are "Finishing Moves" intended to kill a target).
You have Holy Power. Which, quite frankly, is more akin to Rage or Runes than Combo Points. It's a resource which when built up, allows you to use harder hitting or specialist abilities.
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100 Draenei Paladin
18380
It's a resource which when built up, allows you to use harder hitting or specialist abilities.


I hate to get into quibbling matters, but doesn't that describe combo points as well? Not to say rogue and paladin mechanics are mirrors of each other, just that there are similarities.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10155
No, a finishing move intended to have a high chance of killing a target (Blizz will never do one hit KO's) would be an execute. AKA HoW, Execute, PW: Death, Drain Soul and Kill Shot (I might have missed some).

A finisher, in WoW (yes, I know it's retarded but if you followed Blue posts, the term has a different meaning), is an ability that requires combo points (usually consumes them) before it can be used. It actually does make sense, you're not finishing off an opponent, you're building up a resource that will then be consumed by a potent move (though it could be argued that some are rather impotent), forcing you to again build up the resource before you can use another finishing move.
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85 Human Paladin
11205
And I'd suggest you realize you're not Rogues. You don't have "Combo Points", nor are your skills intended to be "Finishers"(which is a misleading label for Rogue abilities anyways. Unless you're trying to tell me Expose Armor, Slice and Dice, Recuperate, and Rupture are "Finishing Moves" intended to kill a target).
You have Holy Power. Which, quite frankly, is more akin to Rage or Runes than Combo Points. It's a resource which when built up, allows you to use harder hitting or specialist abilities.


http://www.wowwiki.com/Rogue_abilities

Slice and Dice, Expose Armor, Rupture and Recuperate are finishing moves...

"Finishing moves - These are the rogue's strongest attacks. They require Combo points to use and increase in effect depending upon the number of Combo points you have on the target. A good rogue will need to learn to use the right finishers at the right time, as there are a lot of them. A few examples are Eviscerate, Envenom, and Rupture."

I love how you even say "...harder hitting or specialist abilities." when rogues themselves use special abilities that don't do damage... that require combo points. So yes our Holy Power system is Combo points and not a RP/Rage system.
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85 Undead Warlock
12590
What does it hit for at 85? What's considered "noodle" strength?

(just curious)

Is it the design intent that a ret blow his stack of holy power on a TV every time it's up? How long does it take as an offensive pally to get a 3-charge of holy power? Is it even supposed to be considered a finisher? Is it supposed to be your hardest hitting attack? Where does it fit in the overall scheme of things for a ret's sustained dps on a target?

(legit questions, not looking to troll here)

I ask these questions because it doesn't seem to me that TV is supposed to be a finisher in the way that eviscerate or ferocious bite is supposed to be.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7785
The problem I have with TV is that for its reliability it doesn't put out the damage that a reliable word heals for.

Its value doesn't shine over word at all especially with the ms nerf.


Wow, that was a fairly quick about face from WoG not healing enough weighed against TV. (Not from you directly, just the general banter about ret finishers).


I read that multiple times trying to understand. Reword it :(



Ret went from being the best melee vs armor by default to the worst. I don't see how blizzard nerfed all rets holy damage and buffed mutilate and envenom.

Yesterday I was cold blood envenom'd for 13k on my 1350 resilience. Fair.

I want my finisher to be that good.


I thought Hammer of Wrath was your finisher? And it DOES hit stupid hard.


Well mr duelist death knight I suggest you do some research on the combo point system before you argue against me. You look like an idiot. Thanks!

And I'd suggest you realize you're not Rogues. You don't have "Combo Points", nor are your skills intended to be "Finishers"(which is a misleading label for Rogue abilities anyways. Unless you're trying to tell me Expose Armor, Slice and Dice, Recuperate, and Rupture are "Finishing Moves" intended to kill a target).
You have Holy Power. Which, quite frankly, is more akin to Rage or Runes than Combo Points. It's a resource which when built up, allows you to use harder hitting or specialist abilities.


The primitive "your not my class" arguement from yet another 1k player. Glad to see you made it. I won't argue against it since everyone else has. Not worth my phone battery neither.
Please post when your mind has evolved a bit.
Yet another bad player thinking he knows what he's talkin about.
Edited by Luminantlol on 12/2/2010 10:50 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10155
Currently, ret has 4 abilities that consume holy power.

Inquisition: in PvE at the very least we get this to 30s through talents (duration is 10s per HP). I'm not sure if PvP rets bother with talents.

Templar's Verdict: Our single target finisher. I don't know if it needs a power boost, I've heard it scales better than most of our other stuff. It does need flare IMO, it doesn't really do anything interesting.

Word of Glory: Our heal that's a finisher.

Zealotry: Probably one of the worst dps CDs I've seen. 2 minute CD that let's our CS generate three HP for 15s.

As for the rotation: IQ > HoW > Exo > TV > CS > Judge > HW > Con (yeah, this AoE is still in the single target rotation ><).
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85 Human Rogue
5520
And I'd suggest you realize you're not Rogues. You don't have "Combo Points", nor are your skills intended to be "Finishers"(which is a misleading label for Rogue abilities anyways. Unless you're trying to tell me Expose Armor, Slice and Dice, Recuperate, and Rupture are "Finishing Moves" intended to kill a target).
You have Holy Power. Which, quite frankly, is more akin to Rage or Runes than Combo Points. It's a resource which when built up, allows you to use harder hitting or specialist abilities.


http://www.wowwiki.com/Rogue_abilities

Slice and Dice, Expose Armor, Rupture and Recuperate are finishing moves...

"Finishing moves - These are the rogue's strongest attacks. They require Combo points to use and increase in effect depending upon the number of Combo points you have on the target. A good rogue will need to learn to use the right finishers at the right time, as there are a lot of them. A few examples are Eviscerate, Envenom, and Rupture."

Okay, and? You can copy/paste. Congrats. You're leaps and bounds above some of the facerolling Rets that are fleeing the class en masse.
You still haven't learned how to read, apparently.
You don't have "Combo Points", nor are your skills intended to be "Finishers"(which is a misleading label for Rogue abilities anyways. Unless you're trying to tell me Expose Armor, Slice and Dice, Recuperate, and Rupture are "Finishing Moves" intended to kill a target).

Thanks for playing though!


I love how you even say "...harder hitting or specialist abilities." when rogues themselves use special abilities that don't do damage... that require combo points. So yes our Holy Power system is Combo points and not a RP/Rage system.

Actually no. You're still closer to how RUNES(notice: RUNES. Not Runic Power. That must be the whole "unable to read" problem cropping its head up again, I guess) operate and RAGE operate.
Your Templar's Verdict, Zealotry, Word of Glory, Inquisition, and other Holy Power abilities do not consume Mana. Thus, they are a completely separate mechanic.

Rogue abilities consume both Combo Points and Energy.
Thanks for playing though. It was fun!
A finisher, in WoW (yes, I know it's retarded but if you followed Blue posts, the term has a different meaning), is an ability that requires combo points (usually consumes them) before it can be used. It actually does make sense, you're not finishing off an opponent, you're building up a resource that will then be consumed by a potent move (though it could be argued that some are rather impotent), forcing you to again build up the resource before you can use another finishing move.

It's a terrible term for how Rogue abilities function. As is the whole "Combo Points" thing too.
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85 Human Rogue
5520

The primitive "your not my class" arguement from yet another 1k player. Glad to see you made it. I won't argue against it since everyone else has. Not worth my phone battery neither.

Please post when your mind has evolved a bit.

Yet another bad player thinking he knows what he's talkin about.

Yet another Blood Elf Paladin thinking he's cool by going off arena ratings.

Because Arena is totally a measure of skill, not your composition.
Amidoinitrite?
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85 Human Paladin
11205
What does it hit for at 85? What's considered "noodle" strength?

(just curious)

Is it the design intent that a ret blow his stack of holy power on a TV every time it's up? How long does it take as an offensive pally to get a 3-charge of holy power? Is it even supposed to be considered a finisher? Is it supposed to be your hardest hitting attack? Where does it fit in the overall scheme of things for a ret's sustained dps on a target?

(legit questions, not looking to troll here)

I ask these questions because it doesn't seem to me that TV is supposed to be a finisher in the way that eviscerate or ferocious bite is supposed to be.


Because our entire spec is based around Templar's Verdict being used. We have talent points yielding us extra HoPo, our "unique" ability at lvl10 is TV, our mastery is a free 3 HoPo ability, and Zealotry itself was designed simply to be a CS->TV rotation until it's over.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7785

The primitive "your not my class" arguement from yet another 1k player. Glad to see you made it. I won't argue against it since everyone else has. Not worth my phone battery neither.

Please post when your mind has evolved a bit.

Yet another bad player thinking he knows what he's talkin about.

Yet another Blood Elf Paladin thinking he's cool by going off arena ratings.

Because Arena is totally a measure of skill, not your composition.
Amidoinitrite?


I have nothing to prove to you. I made you mad so now you're trolling. Next.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
4805
TV is fine Damage wise at level 85, It scales off of weapon damage only, and thus will be fine with level 85 weapons. I agree with Roghtar that it could use some holy damage scaling and i think that is best done through changing our mastery. Most of our damage issues in PvP are the result of there being too much RNG especially on our hardest hitting abilities. We need Exorcism to do less damage but far more reliable. This with a mastery changed and Ret would be fine against high armor targets.

Righteous Vengeance:

Your physical damaging attacks deal will deal X% of there damage over Y seconds, percentage of damage increased by 2% per point of mastery.

If you allow TV to do a portion of its damage as instant Holy damage than the percentage of Weapon damage would have to come down.

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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7785
TV is fine Damage wise at level 85, It scales off of weapon damage only, and thus will be fine with level 85 weapons. I agree with Roghtar that it could use some holy damage scaling and i think that is best done through changing our mastery. Most of our damage issues in PvP are the result of there being too much RNG especially on our hardest hitting abilities. We need Exorcism to do less damage but far more reliable. This with a mastery changed and Ret would be fine against high armor targets.

Righteous Vengeance:

Your physical damaging attacks deal will deal X% of there damage over Y seconds, percentage of damage increased by 2% per point of mastery.

If you allow TV to do a portion of its damage as instant Holy damage than the percentage of Weapon damage would have to come down.


Ret and dots do not mix.
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85 Human Rogue
5520

The primitive "your not my class" arguement from yet another 1k player. Glad to see you made it. I won't argue against it since everyone else has. Not worth my phone battery neither.

Please post when your mind has evolved a bit.

Yet another bad player thinking he knows what he's talkin about.

Yet another Blood Elf Paladin thinking he's cool by going off arena ratings.

Because Arena is totally a measure of skill, not your composition.
Amidoinitrite?


I have nothing to prove to you. I made you mad so now you're trolling. Next.

Hah. Yes, obviously you made me rage so hard that I made a snarky remark rather than just outright flaming you(like y'know...a troll would).

You must be really good at this game!

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