Contradictions in Disc?

90 Night Elf Priest
4610
Mastery: 20pct to absorbs with 2.5pct per point of mastery.
PW:S and Aegis both benefit from this. However, from Fatherfranz and a few other great priests on our side of the boards most of us have come to find that PW:S wont be as attractive as it has been in the past.

Why bother with master when haste/crit is immensely better?

I am not talking about bubble spamming the raid. That is ridiculous and that should never have happened in the first place. I am talking about Shield being very weak to the point that you cast it on your target to gain WS for the bonus to crit on your heals.

Is that all it is now? Just there for crit and free shield every 15 seconds with rapture? Sure, Heal removes some of the WS from our target but is that worth losing crit which in turn lowers triggers of DA (which has NO drawbacks)?

Our masters essentially is ONLY good for DA since bubble is more or less there for WS. I can accept this. I can accept Shield being used for crit bonus. Hell, I don't have very good gear and my crit in a raid on a target with WS is nearly 40pct. That means DA will trigger constantly.

When a mob hits for 20k and bubble blocks 15k in a 5 man...? I can understand it scales with the tanks avoidance/armor but it just seems too little for PvE.

I grew up with disc since Vanilla. Shield was what we were. I am all for change, but don't make it nearly useless. This is all PvE, I have no PvP experience.
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Selfishly speaking, I rather wish they change the Disc mastery to up the smite damage because I think a smite-atonement priest will be more fun.
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85 Worgen Druid
10975
Resto druids are in a similar place. Our mastery seems to want us to spam hots. However, rejuv is now far too expensive to spam. That makes our mastery only useful for tank healing. A lot of classes have masteries that aren't as useful as they should be. I'll be in the same boat finding haste far superior to mastery.
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85 Tauren Priest
5875
I think this is one of those few things where only math matters. Whether Mastery is as valuable as Haste or Crit can't really be decided by a rhetorical argument.

Unless you meant how our Mastery feels to you, which is very important too.
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20 Night Elf Druid
80
Ok,so you were the 1 and ONLY Disc priest in your 40 mans runs back then? So you could use your talented CDs on the top DPS mage/caster and feel like you are being useful. Kinda like a Retribution paladin,1 per raid just for Blessing of kings (as it was their last talent in the tree).


Now, be fair. He also brought the spirit buff.
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85 Human Priest
7795
I grew up with disc since Vanilla. Shield was what we were. I am all for change, but don't make it nearly useless. This is all PvE, I have no PvP experience.



Ok,so you were the 1 and ONLY Disc priest in your 40 mans runs back then? So you could use your talented CDs on the top DPS mage/caster and feel like you are being useful. Kinda like a Retribution paladin,1 per raid just for Blessing of kings (as it was their last talent in the tree).

Sorry i just laugh at some people who say they raided in vanilla yet forget that most specs didnt work back then for anything but a few CDs. Also if you happened to be that 1 guy you did NOT spam PW:S....unless you wanted to get kicked from the raid because you were oom 3 mins into the fight.


Disc and holy weren't that different for a lot of vanilla - up to mid bwl or so you could even heal pretty well as shadow as the specs really didn't add that much.
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85 Draenei Priest
3910
Heal removes some of the WS from our target but is that worth losing crit which in turn lowers triggers of DA


Keep in mind that the crit bonus from Renewed Hope now also applies to targets affected by Grace too.

PW:S wont be as attractive as it has been in the past.


I think it's a bit of a misconception that shields will become completely dead at 85. I shied away from that particular playstyle on the beta because I didn't exactly care for it. I used PW:S as more of a cheaper, instant Flash Heal when someone needed healing quickly while I patched them up. Just because I didn't spam it, doesn't mean I didn't get a lot of mileage out of it. If I remember correctly, DA and PW:S usually accounted for around 40-50% of my total healing. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

If you talent and gear for shield spam I think you can still pull it off. That's either good or bad news depending on your point of view. In fact Perc from US-Ysondre Exodus seemed to make a pretty good living doing just that. And they were testing heroic content too, which I never got the chance to.

With the PW:S glyph, Inner Will and Mental Agility, shielding still becomes a very efficient way to do business, even without Rapture. Those are all talents I never really bothered to take, but that doesn't mean that they aren't viable. I just wanted a different style to play. I think unless something changes, both ways of playing will at least be comparable.

It all depends on what how you use the spec. If you stack mastery and take the PW:S talents, you can probably push PW:S to soak up around 20k in T11 gear (That's a total guess by the way. Mine was around 16k without stacking a ton of mastery, so I don't think it's a huge stretch). That's a LOT of healing if you stretch it out across the raid. You can lower the mana cost down to 2934 (from 3912). So 20k with the 20% glyph you'll get about 24k for 2934 mana. That's an 8.17 HPM ratio WITHOUT Rapture (assuming the shield is always totally absorbed).

This is all threoretical math, so I don't know if it's such a good idea to start making judgements about what stats are going to matter and what aren't. When I was on the beta, I didn't pile on a ton of mastery, but that doesn't mean I avoided it like the plague either.

I'd at least wait for a few weeks before jumping off or on the Mastery bandwagon yet :)
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90 Blood Elf Priest
10155
im more worried that mastery will be too powerful. since bubbles just keep getting stronger whats to stop from stacking mastery and getting super bubbles? ive only got ~13 mastery points but thats already an increase of ~30% to my bubbles (idk the exact numbers, not in game and my armory has me in shadow). my bubbles already absorb ~10k each, mastery would just raise that. so, how high can mastery go? i dont know, but i hope its not something where disc gains super bubbles or other classes where thier masterys adds direct damage gets out of hand.


This is actually the most likely outcome in the later raids of cata. We'll be able to get ~45% mastery in regular t11 epics. I don't remember off the top of my head how quickly mastery scales up with gear (you can look by comparing the non-heroic loot to heroic versions if you want) but I would assume its pretty good!



It all depends on what how you use the spec. If you stack mastery and take the PW:S talents, you can probably push PW:S to soak up around 20k in T11 gear (That's a total guess by the way. Mine was around 16k without stacking a ton of mastery, so I don't think it's a huge stretch). That's a LOT of healing if you stretch it out across the raid. You can lower the mana cost down to 2934 (from 3912). So 20k with the 20% glyph you'll get about 24k for 2934 mana. That's an 8.17 HPM ratio WITHOUT Rapture (assuming the shield is always totally absorbed).


20k on a shield in t11 gear is a bit of an over-exaggeration. If I recall correctly my shields were doing approximately 15k when including the glyph heal when I was on the full (non-heroic) t11 geared raid premade. It came out to be around ~5hpm.

Regardless PW:Shield is still better HPM then Heal and GHeal. Penance is about equal and PoH can be absolutely amazing if you avoid excessive overheal with it.
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85 Gnome Priest
2545
i dont think any of u that talk about divina aegis understand that it HAS A CAP. if it didnt disc wouldnt be AS BROKE IN CATA as it is about to be. the cap is 20% of the casting priest's health pool buffed. so DA sucks and now our bubbles suck. disc is #@*%ed in pvp come cata considering we have the weakest heals in the game currently and our preventative shields are dispellable at will.
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85 Draenei Priest
3910
i dont think any of u that talk about divina aegis understand that it HAS A CAP. if it didnt disc wouldnt be AS BROKE IN CATA as it is about to be. the cap is 20% of the casting priest's health pool buffed. so DA sucks and now our bubbles suck. disc is #@*%ed in pvp come cata considering we have the weakest heals in the game currently and our preventative shields are dispellable at will.


You do realize that Divine Aegis has ALWAYS had a cap, don't you? Before it was a static cap based on your level. Now the cap is actually much higher than it used to be AND it scales with gear. Disc priests are more than fine in Cata and I had a ton of fun on the beta.
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Shields are still usable. They're an instant 10k or so "heal" that have 0 overheal. Strength of Soul lets you put up shields more often, which is handy (Weakened Soul will still be up most of the time because you'll be refreshing PW:S right after WS wears off).

For tank healing, you'll be doing something like "PW:S->PoM-> Penance -> Heal->Heal->PW:S", replacing Heal with Greater Heal if your tank is taking heavier damage. AoE will still use PW:S, but it won't be mindless spam. It'll be used on targets that need it the most, and frankly, that's how I healed as Disc in ICC anyway (except on LK and BQL). It was more work for me, but I found it more fun and I was just as effective.
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85 Draenei Priest
3910
i dont think any of u that talk about divina aegis understand that it HAS A CAP. if it didnt disc wouldnt be AS BROKE IN CATA as it is about to be. the cap is 20% of the casting priest's health pool buffed. so DA sucks and now our bubbles suck. disc is #@*%ed in pvp come cata considering we have the weakest heals in the game currently and our preventative shields are dispellable at will.


k, im new to priest so can you tell me where it says that Divine Aegis caps at 20% of the priests health? its not in the tool tip.


I know it's a little confusing to someone new. Divine Aegis has always had a cap on it. Before Cata, the cap used to be 125 * LVL. So at 80, the cap was always 10,000. I can't remember if the old tooltip mentioned the cap or not, but the mechanic was fairly common knowledge.

Now in Cata, the cap was changed to 20% of the caster's total health. I'd dig up the blue post that mentioned it, but I don't really feel like foraging through the old forums right now. With the incredibly boosted health pools in Cata, the new mechanic is actually a significant improvement over what we had. I can't remember exactly what my cap was on the beta, but it was somewhere around 20,000. Since it scales with your stamina, that cap is only going to get higher. And with DA only giving you 30% of a heal, you rarely bump up against the cap before it's soaked up anyway.
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84 Human Priest
6510
Absorbs being less attractive in Cata than they were in WotLK does not immediately imply that an Absorb mastery is a bad stat. It could still be the fastest way to scale your hps or hpm, and that is why you would use it.

Lots of specs use bonuses to spells even when those spells are less than 80% of their throughput. Those bonuses are still often quite awesome. Would you use a glyph to add a target to Circle of Healing even if CoH is "only" 25% of your healing?
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85 Blood Elf Priest
4400
The thing is as far as I can see if you don't have mastery, and you do have 15-20% crit, then basically flash heal is way better than PW:S outside of rapture. The 10% crit is also supplied by grace so that's not an issue.

So, assuming gear doesn't come forcibly with enough mastery to make casting PW:S worth doing, the usefulness of mastery is gonna start out near zero as shields aren't worth casting, then start rising rapidly once the shields get good enough to surpass, say, flash heal.

The only time PW:S might beat flash heals HPS/HPM at low mastery levels would be raid healing because flash heal won't get grace during that, but didn't blizz explicitly say they were trying to make PW:S not something you wanted to spam across the raid? Seems they messed that up.
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81 Draenei Priest
2505
12/03/2010 4:29 PMPosted by Healspam
i dont think any of u that talk about divina aegis understand that it HAS A CAP. if it didnt disc wouldnt be AS BROKE IN CATA as it is about to be. the cap is 20% of the casting priest's health pool buffed. so DA sucks and now our bubbles suck. disc is #@*%ed in pvp come cata considering we have the weakest heals in the game currently and our preventative shields are dispellable at will.


To be honest. You are so wrong. Disc priest are probably one of the most over powered healers in game. I have ever single type of healer and 95% of the time I can easy be top heals. Now whether or not you have recount and have turned off the 'Merge Aborbs with Owner' option yea you're going to suck cause mostly that's what disc priests are for are to bubble and protect in that way. I haven't gone into the technical stuff with all the math behind it but with the prof of raiding on all healers the prof is there. This will probably be my third toon to level to 85 so I'll think about all that later :)
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