Light of Dawn: Questions and Concerns :)

80 Blood Elf Paladin
2045
DISCLAIMER: Though I think this is a valid concern, it is my own opinion and I realize that. Also as the title says I have a concern and a question that follows it. So please don't just read my concern and start bashing me - also read my question and you will see why it would change your answer.

Ok let me start by saying I have healed a lot, and I mean A LOT since this new patch. Actually its about all I do, my holy gear now surpasses my ret gear. So I've had a fair amount of experience with dealing with the new Holy pally changes.
Let me just say, I love them. I feel more involved and I actually have to think and know what skill is best to use.

With that said, I do have one concern. It's been bothering me lately and I decided to bring it here. This concern is about Light of Dawn or LoD for short.
First off, I actually love the new changes to it (it now scales with HP). Even though it does suck just a little that I cant use it instantly all the time, I'd rather it heal for the 8k it does now (it crit 11k last night for me) then the 2-4k it was before the change. However again I do have one concern:

My concern is the uselessness it holds for me during boss fights and raids. Don't get me wrong; when everyones fighting simple adds, light of dawn works pretty well. The reason? Everyones fighting the same simple add and usually their all right in front of me, perfect for Light of Dawn.
But let's look at boss fights shall we?

Especially with raids and heroics, no longer can everyone just stand around attacking a boss with their eyes closed, not if they want to live. Your dps especially have to learn to avoid certain things with certain bosses. What does this mean? Your party during these type of bosses (most bosses in heroics and raids) will be spread out - ranged dps will definitely be spread out, melee will be close up sometimes and running away the next.

With that said you should see my concern. The fact of the matter is when everyones trying to avoid the fire there's no way LoD will ever be of use during this type of boss fight. Because LoD now scales with HP, it'd be a waste of HP to use Light of Dawn over WoG.

Ok so that is my concern. And it is an honest one: I have never used Light of Dawn during a boss fight - it's a lot more effective to spam fol on each party member granting all of them pretty fast I might say an guarenteed 10k heal unlike LoD which might or might not hit them.

Now here is my question:
Is this how it is suppose to be? As in, is LoD only met to really be used outside of boss fights? In boss fights were more meant to single target heal every raid member?
I just want this to be confirmed because if thats true then fine I have no problem will LoD anymore, but if blizz expected us to utilize this during boss fights - I'm sorry somethings got to be changed then.
Actually I say something but really the "frontal cone" range would have to be changed in order for any use to come from LoD in a boss fight.

PS: I KNOW WE GET HOLY RADIANCE AT 83 BUT THIS DOESNT STOP MY CONCERN FOR LoD. I just want to know that all my skills have a use you know?

I realize were a hybrid class and all, but if you take time to look at other healers skills they all have moves that can easily reach the whole party without positioning themselves in a "frontal cone" area. And not only are their aoe's spells a lot better then ours they all also recieve their HoT's a heck of a lot sooner then we do.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
2045
Btw an example of the problem LoD sometimes holds:

During the Pit of Saron on the Krick and Ick fight, LoD will never come into use. It was during that fight in which my concerns for LoD first arose.
That fight you have to avoid land mines, an aoe poison nova, him charging and random party member and the poison he throws on the ground. Not one time was my party all in front of me in a "cone" like area.
But they were all taking general aoe damage - I would have loved to use LoD but again I couldnt due to the sheer fact that they were all spread out avoiding all the aoe that the boss produces.

Even the final fight in the Pit of Saron your party is spread out avoiding aoe. LoD will just ever be able to hit all your melee and ranged even when I ask them to try to stay within my healing range.
Edited by Revmeplz on 12/2/2010 10:19 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805
LoD doesn't fit into either of the extremes you listed (use it all the time or not at all), especially for 5 mans.

LoD does have a more strict positional requirement than any other healer's aoe heal, but it also has the potential to be a lot more powerful as well.

Some things to consider with LoD:
Each LoD heal transfers to the beacon (unless of course one of those LoD hits is on your beacon)! This makes LoD a huge tank heal on a very short cd (you can generate 3 HP in less than 6 seconds). Also if you compare the numbers on LoD vs WoG you'll see that you only need to hit 2 other people for LoD (plus yourself is a third) to be more healing than WoG + PotI.

It's pretty easy even in a 10 man setting to line up your LoD to hit at least two other people. Most of the time you can just aim it at the melee. Of course there will be times where you can't hit multiple people or really only one person needs healing. That's where decisions come in. You aren't going to just use WoG in every situation nor are you going to just use LoD in every situation, but honestly for raw hps, more people are concerned that WoG is going to be pushed to the wayside.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
2045
LoD doesn't fit into either of the extremes you listed (use it all the time or not at all), especially for 5 mans.

LoD does have a more strict positional requirement than any other healer's aoe heal, but it also has the potential to be a lot more powerful as well.

Some things to consider with LoD:
Each LoD heal transfers to the beacon (unless of course one of those LoD hits is on your beacon)! This makes LoD a huge tank heal on a very short cd (you can generate 3 HP in less than 6 seconds). Also if you compare the numbers on LoD vs WoG you'll see that you only need to hit 2 other people for LoD (plus yourself is a third) to be more healing than WoG + PotI.

It's pretty easy even in a 10 man setting to line up your LoD to hit at least two other people. Most of the time you can just aim it at the melee. Of course there will be times where you can't hit multiple people or really only one person needs healing. That's where decisions come in. You aren't going to just use WoG in every situation nor are you going to just use LoD in every situation, but honestly for raw hps, more people are concerned that WoG is going to be pushed to the wayside.


Ya I understand all of that, I guess it just bothered me when I realized how situational it would be or even how it could end up being based on luck - everyone could be spread out one time and another you could get lucky and everyone who needs a heal is there for LoD.

Like the example I listed I suppose it just sucked for me to see that my whole party needed heals but I could not get into any position to heal more then 1 of them.
I suppose Holy Radiance will fix that type of problem though. Just sucks we have to wait till 83 to get it >.< Def could use that a lot sooner.

Im interested to see where WoG will go, as of right now Im enjoying it, 16k instant crits are pretty nice but with cata approaching and the difficulty presented with it who knows.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
6005
I'm confused.
How will Holy Radiance fix the problem that you're having with LoD?
Holy Radiance has a 10 yard radius, so if you're not able to position yourself to hit more than 1 person with the 30 yard range of LoD, then how would you hit more than one with Holy Radiance that has an effective range of 20 yards?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2905
(you can generate 3 HP in less than 6 seconds)


I'm probably missing something, but how? The only way I can think of is Tower of Radiance proc + Crusader Strike + Holy Shock.

Again, serious question, I'm probably missing something
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5225
(you can generate 3 HP in less than 6 seconds)


I'm probably missing something, but how? The only way I can think of is Tower of Radiance proc + Crusader Strike + Holy Shock.

Again, serious question, I'm probably missing something


That, or a couple of quick Flashes on Beacon and a Holy Shock, or even three Holy Lights (even with my low haste, they are at a 1.9 second cast) on Beacon. There are plenty of ways to get quick HP.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805
(you can generate 3 HP in less than 6 seconds)


I'm probably missing something, but how? The only way I can think of is Tower of Radiance proc + Crusader Strike + Holy Shock.

Again, serious question, I'm probably missing something


With no haste at all you have a 1.5 second GCD for HS and 2.5 second casts for HL

HSx1 + HLx2 = 6.5 seconds with no haste. You need less than 9% haste to turn that into 6 seconds, and you should have 9% from JotP and another 3% from speed of light.
The holy lights of course would go on your beacon.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5225
Like the example I listed I suppose it just sucked for me to see that my whole party needed heals but I could not get into any position to heal more then 1 of them.


Triage - mastering this will be essential to being a successful healer in Cataclysm. This isn't a problem with Light of Dawn; it's a matter of determining who to heal with what and when. Not trying to sound rude or anything - not intended at all.

Light of Dawn isn't intended to be your current answer to all situations in which multiple party members need heals.
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80 Tauren Paladin
1980
I find it hard to believe that you are constantly confronted with situations where you need to heal multiple people and you don't have two people standing somewhat near each other.

And with POTI and Beacon, 2 is all it takes to make LoD worth it.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
0

Some things to consider with LoD:
Each LoD heal transfers to the beacon (unless of course one of those LoD hits is on your beacon)! This makes LoD a huge tank heal on a very short cd (you can generate 3 HP in less than 6 seconds). Also if you compare the numbers on LoD vs WoG you'll see that you only need to hit 2 other people for LoD (plus yourself is a third) to be more healing than WoG + PotI.


The thing is, LoD is ment to be a smart heal with its new design, but it will hardly be smart if it doesnt get up to 5 targets to pick out of.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805

Some things to consider with LoD:
Each LoD heal transfers to the beacon (unless of course one of those LoD hits is on your beacon)! This makes LoD a huge tank heal on a very short cd (you can generate 3 HP in less than 6 seconds). Also if you compare the numbers on LoD vs WoG you'll see that you only need to hit 2 other people for LoD (plus yourself is a third) to be more healing than WoG + PotI.


The thing is, LoD is ment to be a smart heal with its new design, but it will hardly be smart if it doesnt get up to 5 targets to pick out of.


and the problem with that is...?
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85 Human Paladin
4040
I have seen video's of every encounter of cataclysm, and a lot of them involve your group stacking to split the damage.

LoD will be very useful but not to an extent where WoG feel useless.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
2045
I'm confused.
How will Holy Radiance fix the problem that you're having with LoD?
Holy Radiance has a 10 yard radius, so if you're not able to position yourself to hit more than 1 person with the 30 yard range of LoD, then how would you hit more than one with Holy Radiance that has an effective range of 20 yards?


Because Holy Radiance doesn't require people to be directly in front of you in a "cone".

Now when we wipe we can echo a number of healer character names that I've seen and honestly explain: "My heal missed."


This points out my worries. Though clearly meant to be funny, I don't like the idea of "oops sorry you weren't in my frontal cone".

I understand what everyone is saying, I really do. I even stated I LIKE the changes to LoD. I know what uses it has, but almost none of you even spoke on my concern, What I don't like is the fact that during most bosses my party is nearly never all in front of me in order to use LoD.

Its pretty obvious were just more set up for single target healing, we do get big heals so I guess I can't complain. Oh well.

I have seen video's of every encounter of cataclysm, and a lot of them involve your group stacking to split the damage.

LoD will be very useful but not to an extent where WoG feel useless.


Hopefully, I suppose I'll see where we head after the expansion drops.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5805
I even stated I LIKE the changes to LoD. I know what uses it has, but almost none of you even spoke on my concern, What I don't like is the fact that during most bosses my party is nearly never all in front of me in order to use LoD.


The thing is LoD only needs to hit 2 or 3 people to be worth using over WoG. That is really easy to do in a raid, and it's not really a huge problem in 5 mans either. It's going to be pretty rare that not hitting someone with LoD means they are going to die.
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90 Human Paladin
15420
On LK 10 HM on Tuesday, WoG felt pretty useless.

Healing breakdown was Divine Light 22%, BoL 19%, LoD 16%, Illum Heal 12%, FoL 10%, PotI 10%, HS 8%. HL is at the bottom, and not a single WoG.

LoD numbers would have been higher if I did not have to time LoD with infest.

All in all I don't think I could have 2 healed the fight without LoD.
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85 Tauren Paladin
0
Light of Dawn is pretty overpowered right now with the beacon transfer and the fact that it hits like a truck. Yes, it's less good in 5-mans than in raids. But the positional requirements for you to use it are not much more strict than they are for any other AoE heal (possible exception of Prayer of Healing) in the game.

There are situations where WoG is better (healing fire side H Halion 10 phase 3 for example), but Light of Dawn is insanely good right now, to the point of making WoG largely obsolete.
Edited by Richardhawk on 12/3/2010 2:41 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9300
Honestly, my bigger concern is Holy Radiance's short range AND centered on the Paladin conditions.

If it was 20+ (40 being optimal here) and centered on the Paladin, that would be okay. (Same as an Aura or Totems.)

If it was 10 yards in radius, but you could target it on the ground somewhere like a targetable AoE attack (think a Mage's Blizzard or a Druid's Hurricane), that would be okay.


But that it has both a short range AND is centered on the Paladin causes problems. Though maybe we're supposed to melee a lot more in Cata? It does seem like we may be supposed to cast Judgement (for the debuff, haste, and self-heal) and CS (for the HP) more in Cata.



As for LoD...my bigger thing was the HP change, but I've gotten used to that. I even prefer it over the 30 sec CD since I can (almost) spam it if I really need to (HS, LoD, CS, LoD, FoL Beacon, LoD) or whatever. (Though in that case I'd probably HS, FoL, CS, LoD...though CS before LoD means re-aiming...)

The range of the cone isn't so much a problem as the CONE itself. 30 yards is a long range. In fact, deceptively so. I use LoD in capital cities some for the heck of it and it's surprising just how far away it will actually hit people.

I think LoD is just Blizzards way of telling us they want us to move around more, and that includes turning, not just strafing out of the stupid. Though I also remember Cone of Cold (on my Mage) being kind of hokey to use sometime since if you're strafing it will go off in a weird direction based on the "facing" mechanic.



Really, the only problem I have is that we don't get some OTHER AoE heal that works more like a Priest's Circle of Healing or a Druid's Wild Growth.

But LoD DOES have a decidedly more Paladin flair to it. And honestly, I actually do like that. I like that it isn't homogenized to match other healers.

...I just hope when balancing Holy Paladins for instance and raid encounters, they take this into effect. Because we aren't going to be able to AE heal fights where there's a lot of running around (Ick being a good example.) Neither LoD nor HR will function well in those types of fights, so we'll be relegated to HS and WoG alone during fights like that where we're dodging land mines. ^_^;


Just remember you CAN FoL individual people. It's what any Paladin that wanted to raid heal in Wrath did. Only thing is in Cata, it'll be a lot more mana intensive than Wrath allowed for...
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