Artisan Quiver is terrible.

90 Troll Hunter
16610
So, Marksmanship Hunters. Good ol' marksmanship hunters. Lets take a look at that the spec bonus that comes with the mastery when you choose Marksmanship.

Artisan Quiver- "Increases auto-shot damage by 15%."

...

Auto-shot does about 15-18% of our damage, with the current changes. (Way more with armor penetraiton RIP.)

I can't help but notice that 15% of that is a bit more than 2%.

Take into account that hunters rarely stand still for long in PVP, as every class and their grandmother is sitting in our melee range, happily hacking away or casting spells. So this has little use in PVP, and a menial boost in PVE.


I really can't say much else other than this is terrible, and its sad to compare it to other classes spec bonuses, such as the majority of casters that are getting a 15-25% boost to their entire rotation.

Take the arms warrior, for example. They have a melee-identical version of the Marksmanship mastery, where they are granted extra melee attacks that can proc off of other melee attacks. Their spec bonus is a flat-out 10% damage boost to melee weapons, in addition to getting the 'Anger Management' bonus (25% moar rage from damage dealt [do this to focus???].

Is the niche of Marksmanship not supposed to be being good at using a ranged weapon? Its Marksmanship, not Auto-Shotmanship, nor getkilledbycasterssittinginyourdeadzonemanship. I wish it was fixdeterrencemanship, though. Would it not make more sense to boost all damage dealt with ranged attacks by 10%? Thats what Marksman does. They are not about pets, or elemental damage like the other two specs (whose spec bonuses cater to those specific attributes.)

Nope, Marksmanship gets a whopping 15% damage on their auto-shot that equates to a trivial 2% in PVE, and mitigated or nullified in PVP. Then you have classes such as mages getting 25% extra fire/frost/arcane damage as their spec bonus, while their masteries add even more of a dps increase. The marksmanship mastery itself is actually very good, it is definitely on par with many other class masteries. But the sad state of the spec bonus, and the fact that other classes have much much better ones in addition to other spec bonuses (anger management for example) is disappointing.

And how bout that trap launcher.
Edited by Penguintamer on 12/2/2010 3:39 PM PST
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90 Troll Hunter
16610
Arcane mages use arcane spells, fire mages use fire spells, and frost mages use frost spells (ice lance, more accurately) with the exception of the brain freeze talent (if it is even still in.)

Spec bonuses should benefit both the pve and pvp spectrum. The Marksmanship one is pitiful in both, there is no getting past that.

Its a terrible spec bonus. Changing it to an increase in range damage or simply physical ranged damage would alleviate that, and aid in boosting the horrible excuse for a signature shot that we like to call Aimed Shot.

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85 Worgen Death Knight
5125
I guess artisan quiver being terrible is the reason marksman DPS is through the roof at 85.
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2 Gnome Rogue
0
I guess artisan quiver being terrible is the reason marksman DPS is through the roof at 85.


Pretty sure it's Survival, not Marksman, that is the best current PvE spec at 85.
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I guess artisan quiver being terrible is the reason marksman DPS is through the roof at 85.
AHAHAHAHAHA.

You made my day.

Marksman is awful and is far below its brother spec known as Survival.
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90 Troll Hunter
16610
Arcane mages use arcane spells, fire mages use fire spells, and frost mages use frost spells (ice lance, more accurately) with the exception of the brain freeze talent (if it is even still in.)

Spec bonuses should benefit both the pve and pvp spectrum. The Marksmanship one is pitiful in both, there is no getting past that.

Its a terrible spec bonus. Changing it to an increase in range damage or simply physical ranged damage would alleviate that, and aid in boosting the horrible excuse for a signature shot that we like to call Aimed Shot.


You seem to fail to realize that, without that 25% boost, a Mage's damage would be too low. These bonuses are taken into account when DPS is balanced, you know. They aren't bonuses so much as exclusive equalizers.

To elaborate on the Mage's example, a Frost Mage's DPS would be 25% too low without the bonus, and the perk ameliorates that. As a penalty, though, all off-school spells are 20% weaker.

As for the Hunter, assuming DPS is balanced correctly (and I've heard Hunters are doing quite well in PvE at 85), the "bonus" is still just an equalizer. If MM Hunters are doing 2% too little damage, then a boost of 2% is all you get. It appears a Hunter's baseline capabilities are closer to the goal than baseline for a Mage.

If you had a stronger perk, other abilities, talents, or coefficients would be lowered to keep your damage the same.


I completely understand your logic, but here is the kicker, Marksmanship damage right now is absolutely pitiful. Its really, really bad. If Artisan Quiver did not exist, we would not notice. Its trivial and the dps is low with or without it.
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85 Worgen Death Knight
5125
I guess artisan quiver being terrible is the reason marksman DPS is through the roof at 85.
AHAHAHAHAHA.

You made my day.

Marksman is awful and is far below its brother spec known as Survival.


Here, I'll let you borrow my spare sarcasm detector. Listen for the two beeps: once for a passive "being terrible", and again for blatant misinformation.
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90 Troll Hunter
16610
Text sarcasm is serious business
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86 Worgen Hunter
9850
Aimed shot damage... This ****ing mastery... Marked for death talent...
This spec needs some review.
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90 Troll Hunter
16610
Aimed shot damage... This ****ing mastery... Marked for death talent...
This spec needs some review.



resistance is futile...trueshot aura...master marksman...oh my.

And thats only MM!
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85 Draenei Hunter
9335
Aimed shot damage... This ****ing mastery... Marked for death talent...
This spec needs some review.



resistance is futile...trueshot aura...master marksman...oh my.

And thats only MM!

And then pretty much half the talents requiring steady shots/buffing steady shot which is pretty much the deathtoll for MM PvP dps even if the spec worked for PvE dps at 85.
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2 Gnome Rogue
0
I guess artisan quiver being terrible is the reason marksman DPS is through the roof at 85.
AHAHAHAHAHA.

You made my day.

Marksman is awful and is far below its brother spec known as Survival.


Here, I'll let you borrow my spare sarcasm detector. Listen for the two beeps: once for a passive "being terrible", and again for blatant misinformation.


Yeah, but people actually say stuff like this regarding Hunters and totally believe it, that's why the sarcasm was undetected.
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60 Orc Hunter
1875
MM's Artisan Quiver is also poor compared to SV's Into the Wilderness (+15% agility) and BM's Animal Handler(+15% attack power). Those both benefit most hunter damage and also benefit the pet. Artisan Quiver affects one shot and does nothing for the pet.

My 19 twink MM hunter was averaging about 100 dps in random dungeons. I respecced to SV and am now averaging over 130 dps.
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80 Blood Elf Paladin
5015
in addition to getting the 'Anger Management' bonus (25% moar rage from damage dealt [do this to focus???].


Anger Management buffs rage generation for a Warrior because Fury's off-hand means Fury generates roughly 50% more rage than Arms.
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85 Orc Death Knight
3865
The spec is balanced around having Artisan Quiver. If something is holding it back, it's not AQ.

Take into account that hunters rarely stand still for long in PVP


Run, stop for .2 seconds to fire an auto shot, run, stop for .2 seconds, run.

Hard. I know.
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90 Draenei Hunter
12940
Marks is in a bad spot. At least it plays VERY similarly to the far better-designed Survival, so you can still be a badass sniper and still pump out some DPS.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
14020
Run, stop for .2 seconds to fire an auto shot, run, stop for .2 seconds, run.

Hard. I know.


Wow, you are really stupid.

1. You have to stand still for a minimum of .5 secs to fire an auto shot.
2. During that .5-1 sec timeframe you are standing still like a retard waiting to attack, the enemy is running directly at you.
3. We can't fire in melee range.

It's apparent you are just a retarded troll that has no experience in pvp and are out on a crusade to keep hunters weak in pvp because you suck so bad, you can't beat one unless that are continually nerfed into uselessnesss.
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Here, I'll let you borrow my spare sarcasm detector. Listen for the two beeps: once for a passive "being terrible", and again for blatant misinformation.


Hey man, you're a Death Knight so one can't be too sure if it's sarcasm. Could just be pure idiocy.
Edited by Interest on 12/3/2010 9:58 AM PST
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