Glyphs at 25 - a cruel joke?

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90 Blood Elf Priest
13660
Of course the use of glyphs is really not going to make or break the game for you while leveling, and really maybe even at late levels/end-game to varying degrees. It's potentially also a stretch to think that it will be completely forgotten. BUT! fundamentally, good idea.
One thing to remember is that gameplay goes beyond numbers. If new players feel overwhelmed by the economy and perceive that there are "core" experiences they cannot participate in because they don't have a level 80 alt helping fund them, it will be detrimental to player retention. Yes, glyphs aren't necessary, but I remember feeling rather bummed and inferior when I was a newb levelling up and didn't have any because they were too expensive. I didn't know enough about gameplay to evaluate how useful or necessary they were, but I knew enough about the bright shiny UI in front of me to know that there was a main window I couldn't afford to do anything with. Charity/training wheel glyphs would definitely help newbs feel like they are getting a full game experience, without throwing players perks for free.
1 Human Warrior
0
The arguments are invalid when comparing to new players and rerollers.

Simply unfair to find a minor for 300 gold. Hell even on my main I was turned off buying 81 glyphs people could make(not a bug) becasue they were selling for
400 gold a pop..

Sometimes Inscription ca go #$#@ die for how greedy these people are and sadly most buy because they got the money, too lazy to go farm it or aren't patient.


Why complain about glyph prices? There is no other item in game that you will get as much use from except maybe a mount. Regardless of price you will get more bang for your buck with a glyph than any gem or enchant or piece of gear in game.

Why is it that there aren't multiple threads complaining about gem prices when they have to spend 100-600g every time they get a new piece of gear?
80 Undead Priest
0
Grrr, new forums swallowed my post after I went AFK for a bit then finished it and clicked post. not in the browser buffer either. /sigh

The secondary ink (eg. snowfall ink from northrend herbs) already sell for more than a stack of herb. You could give away glyphs and still be profitable.


Do not confuse price & sales. I have hundreds of secondary inks I just can't get rid of short of vendoring the things.

It sounds like you're buying low-level herbs, in which case yeah, those secondary inks don't sell. As long as you bought NR herbs and used the ink trader in LK, and presumably the same thing in Cataclysm, those secondary inks have a great market. I just sold another 4000g of Snowfall Ink this week, about 15g/*each* (150g a stack). That blows away the cost in mats it took me to mill that much Snowfall Ink.

If you look at the MMOC inscription/AH tutorial, he says the exact same thing.

Thats not working over this couple weeks when Jessica Sellers is being rude and not trading for inks that are actually available in game, but I'd be surprised if it's not true again as soon as Cataclysm launches.

That means the entire cost of glyphs is milling, crafting, auctioning, and relisting <i>time</i>. The 1s 48hr deposit is a joke (intentionally).

Note how you always hear the cry of "greedy scribes" (well, generally it's "greedy inscriptionists"), but you never hear whinging about "greedy herbalists"

Many glyphs are mandatory for specs to work as intended. That same is not true for herbs or any other profession item that comes to mind.

They apparently thought glyphs were mandatory enough that they needed to put a max price on the ability to remove glyphs (vanishing powder). Why not put a similar max price for buying glyphs?

I suspect it was because of development time and trying to avoid frustrating the feign-insulted scribes who were so worried about how they would never be able to sell another glyph after 4.0.1. What a joke that was :)

Why is it that there aren't multiple threads complaining about gem prices when they have to spend 100-600g every time they get a new piece of gear?

As it turns out there are training wheel non-epic gems that are nearly as good as epic gems. There are also many fewer gem cuts which are actually used, whereas almost every glyph has *some* use. That means there is actual competition among gem sales, while many of the 350 glyphs are either missing from the AH entirely, or only up for absurd prices by 1 or 2 players. The gem market does not have this problem, the prices have always been (relative to glyph markups) very close to cost.
Edited by Squirrelbot on 12/3/2010 1:00 PM PST
1 Tauren Warrior
0
So i'm greedy for making a profit? lol no.


Define profit? If you insist that selling something for 1000% more than what it cost you to make, then yes, I'm afraid so.

And don't tell me that they're not dirt cheap to produce because I have all professions maxed out on one character or another.


GO BACK TO SOCIALIST CANADA!

If people want to under cut the market they have the opportunity and can do it at any time.

If the profit in making something and monitoring the market is not worth the margin then people aren't going to do it. With your altruistic rhetoric and the fact that you have all professions maxed out I'm guessing we should all expect to join up your server and see all crafted items or mats just above cost. If that is not the cast then you had best shut your mouth.


lol. Compelling argument. A little too defensive... which begs the question why.

Our goals are obviously different, so let me explain, and not to worry, I'll use little words for you...

My professions have never been and never will be a vehicle for making money. I did not learn them to make a profit. I learned them to be self sufficient so I don't have to deal with people like you.

I would rather spend my time leveling alts than farming gold, and the time I spend farming mats is solely for my own needs. And strangely enough, gold is not a problem for me even though I don't actively farm it.

If reading comprehension was one of your strong suits, you may have noticed that all I said was that these things are dirt cheap to produce, and you have given no evidence to the contrary, so I guess I'll just take your post as a typical knee jerk reaction.
80 Blood Elf Paladin
3620
I know exactly what you mean OP... I hit 25 on my mage on a new server... went to AH and Glyph of Arcane Blast was 170g... If glyphs are not any help at that level then why are they implemented at that level?? I find they do make a difference...not gamebreaking but still noticeable.

I was lucky and found someone in trade chat willing to cut me a good deal on a major and prime glyph .. the minor I waited on..
I just wanted to write that I have noticed the same thing. While I had plenty of gold I could have loaned to this character, I have been trying to make him as self-sufficient as possible. Until very recently, I had only one glyph. As of this post I only have my major glyph slots left open. So even at 55 I haven't had much gold to put into it.

I'd like to mention that I have done only half of a dungeon, which might be a factor in my money woes (I just wanted to experience more zone content). The other factor is trying to keep up with my professions, I've visited the auction house for no other reason than for my professions and they've cost me a lot. With the increased leveling speed (I'm not wearing heirlooms either), it is not possible to level professions at the same pace as your character without the auction house or trips back to lower level zones.
80 Troll Shaman
2350
30-50g? On some realms many are going for 200g.

Herbs are freaking everywhere now, you can level faster picking flowers, but the glyphs are so damn expensive. Which means I have jack up the price on the raw mats, and the cycle continues.
85 Night Elf Mage
7110
(Perhaps one suggestion I could make would be for a class trainer to give you a set of 3 glyphs appropriate to your spec - but make these new, weaker glyphs - worth using but also worth replacing as soon as you can afford to.)


I think that's actually a pretty kickass suggestion, and one I will bring up. I don't doubt it's something that's been thought of already, but may bear repeating. (repeating bear says *rawr*)


Wait... wouldn't he say *rawrrawr*?
85 Human Paladin
5415
As for the gold problems that the OP talked about. Any noobie is gonna have those gold problems until they learn how to get gold efficiently. The problem is that most noobs fail to ask someone. There are plenty of people out there that are more than willing to take a noobie under their wing and teach them the ropes. Their are a few basic things that everyone should know.

1 - At level 5, you need to pick up 2 GATHERING professions. Herbalism, Mining, or Skinning. You shouldn't try for crafting professions unless you have a high level main to fund them because they are very expensive to level. Sell everything you gather in AH using Auctioneer.

2 - Resist the urge to visit the AH for gear each time you level. Quest rewards and world drops are more than sufficient for leveling and low level instances. You do not need to buy any gear until you reach max level. Save your gold.

3 - Level your toon. The higher your level, the more potential to earn gold. Period.

These are just a few things that noobs should know. The problem they have is finding someone that will teach them these things. I would suggest that Blizzard institute some sort of master/apprentice type of system that gives rewards to both the noob and the veteran. This would encourage veteran players to seek out noobs and offer help and advice. It would also help to catch noobs while they are still new to the game and help them develope good game play stratagies from the very start.
8 Human Paladin
0
forget about them unless you have an 80 for gold... people are unbelievably greedy

Supply and demand. How the capitalistic market types work.

Better off asking in trade chat. People in Tradechat will usually sell for cheaper than AH.

Also, posting on my bank alt.
Edited by Eunheng on 12/3/2010 1:52 PM PST
84 Blood Elf Paladin
2045
I also don't think it's realistic to think that new players are going to make inscription buddies or choose inscription (or maybe any profession) themselves.


It's not even really an option. Inscription is the most infuriatingly RNG-based profession, and utterly pointless to pick up if your intention is to make glyphs for yourself and your alts, in the same way you might pick up tailoring to make your own robes and such. If there's some particular glyph you want, odds are there's absolutely positively nothing at all whatsoever you can do to learn it. Your "research" option doesn't even have the option to attempt to research a particular glyph, and more often than not, you can't get it from "research" anyway, you need to learn it from a book, but you can't even go buy the book, because even if you get a book, you have no control at all whatsoever over what you'll learn from it. >:( It's as not-fun as any profession could possibly ever be...
Edited by Kalonike on 12/3/2010 1:53 PM PST
81 Blood Elf Paladin
2485
(Perhaps one suggestion I could make would be for a class trainer to give you a set of 3 glyphs appropriate to your spec - but make these new, weaker glyphs - worth using but also worth replacing as soon as you can afford to.)


I think that's actually a pretty kickass suggestion, and one I will bring up. I don't doubt it's something that's been thought of already, but may bear repeating. (repeating bear says *rawr*)

Having a character customization/power system dependent on the market means there is going to be a rub when asking new players to spend their new-player amounts of cash on well-aged-game inflation rates. I also don't think it's realistic to think that new players are going to make inscription buddies or choose inscription (or maybe any profession) themselves.

Of course the use of glyphs is really not going to make or break the game for you while leveling, and really maybe even at late levels/end-game to varying degrees. It's potentially also a stretch to think that it will be completely forgotten. BUT! fundamentally, good idea.


Let's not make inscription any less of a viable profession by giving away free glyphs....m'kay? It already took a big hit with the permanent glyphs.
Edited by Dainen on 12/3/2010 1:55 PM PST
85 Human Death Knight
3600
a) i do like that glyphs are something that can set you apart because not everyone can get them like you said. There is a financial aspect to that.

b) It's also true that before 80 glyphs don't matter so don't waste the money unless you have some to throw around. You will just replace them all anyway.

c) if you want low level glyphs pick up inscription prof... you'll make money (selling them at 30g a pop) and you can level to a respectable point relatively easily, make your glyphs, and then switch profs if you want.
85 Human Death Knight
3600
(Perhaps one suggestion I could make would be for a class trainer to give you a set of 3 glyphs appropriate to your spec - but make these new, weaker glyphs - worth using but also worth replacing as soon as you can afford to.)


I think that's actually a pretty kickass suggestion, and one I will bring up. I don't doubt it's something that's been thought of already, but may bear repeating. (repeating bear says *rawr*)

Having a character customization/power system dependent on the market means there is going to be a rub when asking new players to spend their new-player amounts of cash on well-aged-game inflation rates. I also don't think it's realistic to think that new players are going to make inscription buddies or choose inscription (or maybe any profession) themselves.

Of course the use of glyphs is really not going to make or break the game for you while leveling, and really maybe even at late levels/end-game to varying degrees. It's potentially also a stretch to think that it will be completely forgotten. BUT! fundamentally, good idea.


Let's not make inscription any less of a viable profession by giving away free glyphs....m'kay? It already took a big hit with the permanent glyphs.


Yeah stop nerfing Inscription. First reuseable glyphs, then you sell enchanting vellum from vendors, what's next? I mean are you going to give gold to all the people who spent so much to level inscription? You could have at least left us with being the only ones who can make vanishing dust or something.
The simple fact that Glyphs as a new character ability are tied to the market is a shame. It would be nice if *some* could be acquired as drops or rewarded as quest items. Leave the majority to be crafted but let players get a taste without relying on a market that may either not exist or be horribly inflated.


You need to be careful with this line of argument, as it can be extended to BOE gear too. (i.e. "Blizzard you gave me starter glyphs, wouldn't it be more new-player friendly to give me starter gear too? No way can I afford this stuff on the AH.")

The argument can be made that the vast majority of greens are market-priced out of new player's reach too. For years, we've all been dealing with it. But hey, we sure want to improve the experience for those new accounts.


We already get gear as we level as quest rewards and drops. I'm only suggesting we get a few glyphs as drops or rewards as well. We get healing and mana potions and it hasn't put alchemists out of work. A few glyphs as quest rewards would be ideal.
80 Gnome Rogue
1630
I agree with the OP and blue. Good idea. 125 gold for a level 25 arcane shot... is just...
1 Human Warrior
0
I agree with the OP and blue. Good idea. 125 gold for a level 25 arcane shot... is just...


On the other hand, Arcane shot is an endgame glyph that all hunters need. It may not be worth 125g at level 25 but it certainly is at 80 and again, you will get more use out of that 125g than if you bought anything else in game. Gold well spent.
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