Topic
Solution 4 ppl that don't like ISF...
|
Ok you haven't even gotten ToC 10 achieve. your in wrathful with no pvp achievements so im assuming ur a bad lock that no one would take in PvE or PvP, and u farmed ur wrathful gear when it became available for honor. That being said, ISF is too good of a buff to pass up atm. your going to be losing ALOT of dps at lvl 85 if you dont keep that talent active on kill target at all times. However its a clunky and hectic mechanic that the entire class is balanced around in PvE. First of all demo and Affl locks have to cast it to maximize DPS. Afflock hardcasting soulfire (or popping soulburn+SF) every 15 seconds to keep a buff up which maximizes our dps? Afflock REQUIRING a fire spell in their rotation? Well thats stupid.
Secondly, ISF gives us 15% haste right? Well on a fight with Bloodlust, were nerfed too. BL gives u 30% haste, but that 30% is decreased with us cause we hit haste cap, meaning were only doing 115% of our damage, not 130. Thirdly, assuming that this talent stays, in t12 and t13 we'll be hitting haste cap WITHOUT BL on target which means broken class on the horizon. And finally lastly, the problems with managing the talent itself. It has a 15 second duration AND a 15 minute cooldown. Meaning it is unable to be refreshed until it has expired. This means if ur soulburn is on CD (which it should be if ur not bad) and u dont have an IDEAL Empowered imp proc, then u have to hardcast Soulfire which is like wut 3-4 seconds? ON TOP of all this you have to time it so it lands RIGHT after ISF expires. In other words, to maximize DPS you HAVE to have an addon tracking the buff. WHY is this talent not refreshable? Its absolutely rediculous making us have to pay such innate attention to our timers and bars. I know locks have ALWAYS been doing that, but this is retarded. I dont wanna have to cast soulfire as affliction. |
Or blizz will just move it without the balance. The easiest way for aff with this is to make haunt refresh it. Not initially set it up, but simply refresh it. That way, it punishes you for failing to keep haunt up, and keeps the cooldown mechanic in place. And for god's sake, make it refreshable!! A 15 sec buff with a 15 sec icd that our entire dps is balanced around, both tied to a long cast spell and overwritten by bloodlust/timewarp is frickin retarded. They got rid of the soul shard annoyance mechanic and slapped us with this puppy. GJ blizz. I just think it's funny that they finally got rid of the stupid shard mechanic but they just couldn't cut us a break and stuck us with this thing. |
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha...... Oh wait, you're serious? You must be new here. |
|
The talent definitely needs some fine tuning. The options are either to increase the length of the buff, allow it to be refreshed more frequently, allow it to be refreshed by another spell mechanic, or move it up the destro tree and adjust the other two trees accordingly.
Having it in the game in its current state is not fair to the other builds. Mandatory talents in secondary trees should be a thing of the past. |
This. Remember what they did when they 'simplified' affliction? lawl. |
|
It's not just that we have to spec into the ISF talent if you're Affliction and Demo. As the EJ talent profiles are showing, Afflic and Demo also need to spec into 2/2 Emberstorm to cut out 1 second of casting time from Soulfire for hardcasts. This sucks up valuable talent points to max out Dark Arts for Affliction and Shadow and Flame for Demo.
|
|
As a demo lock, I won't be picking up ISF. I see no point in gimping my rotations and playstyle to pretend I'm destro.
For those checking out my toon, in my spec I plan on finishing up Shadow and Flame, filling out Improved Immolate, and then Doom and Gloom from affliction tree. I think in the long run that will work better for my demo spec than ISF. I see the haste buff causing far more problems than it's worth. It'll mess up the rotation trying to keep it maintained, and I'll lose time I could be tossing out shadow bolts waiting for soulfire to cast. Or I'd end up running out of soul shards trying to keep it up with soulburn. Not worth the trouble from what I see. On a side note to the obsessed. Yes, I'm only wearing 2 pieces of T-10. Yeah, I'm wearing alot that drops from raids or is vendor bought. Yeah I concerned myself more with intellect than haste or crit. I can pull 10k outside of ICC, my Felguard and I hit like a truck, and I cause tanks grief from the threat I generate. My favorite color is purple. I like listening to Our Lady Peace and Nirvana. I run Linux on my computer. And my guild secretly tries to keep me from influencing young locks with demo spec, cause they all play destro. I have 88 mounts, 86 vanity pets, and 28 titles. Did I leave anything out to make fun of me for? |
|
I've seen tons of agreement with me that this thing is horribly ugly, but I have yet to see an adequate, ballanced, and fair solution... and if you aren't part of the solution then you might be part of the problem is what I was taught. This might not be perfect, but if any Blue Posters are reading this thread I beg you to come up with a better solution to what will become a moster of a problem before T12 can get implemented.
First, remove the icd from the ISF buff so that its refreshable at any time but otherwise keep the ISF buff as is (increasing spell haste by 15% for 15 seconds) under a new name (Soul Consumption?). Second, reballance Soul Fire to replace Incinerate as a spam-filler except when under the effects of Backdraft or Molten Core. Make Incinerate trainable at level 58 and Soul Fire trainable at level 78. Third, change the Backdraft and Molten Core talents to increase the cast time of Soul Fire by 20% in addition to their current effects Affliction solution: change the Nightfall talent to cause Haunt to trigger the ISF buff in addition to its current effects. Demonology solution: change the Inferno talent to cause Hand of Gul'dan to trigger the ISF buff in addition to it's current effects. Destruction solution: change the Fire and Brimstone talent to cause Chaos Bolt to refresh Corruption in addition to it's current effects. |
|
|
*applause* You, I like. |
First, remove the icd from the ISF buff so that its refreshable at any time but otherwise keep the ISF buff as is (increasing spell haste by 15% for 15 seconds) under a new name (Soul Consumption?). A) Far far too sweeping of a change B) Still retains the required subspec talent for Affliction and Demo C) Your Destro solution doesn't have anything to do with ISF and feels far to afflictiony. It's far easier than this, though: 1) Swap ISF with either Aftermath or Backlash (give those PvP peeps a bit more utility to play with on a Destro subspec). 2) Remove the ICD. 3) Increase Shadow Mastery (Affliction passive) from 25% to 40% and Demonic Knowledge (Demo passive) from 15% to 28% (slightly under direct compensation for the loss of 15% haste, since they gain some replacement dps from their new flexible subspec) 4) Reduce the maximum size of the Burning Embers effect or slightly reduce the bonus from Cataclysm (Destro passive). In exchange, up the proc rate on Empowered Imp from 4% to 10%. Alternatively, increase the buff duration on ISF to 30 seconds. Removes the SF weirdness for Aff and Demo by keeping ISF out of reach of them (yet still compensating them for it), makes it a lot less annoying to keep up as Destro, and makes it far more likely that Emp Imp will be sufficient to maintain it. |
85 Human Warlock
8260
|
Hope & Change.
|
|
Agreed, Celestias... except that my tankadin is my main. I abhore the new combo points but its better than the warlock situation.
Sorry Daelyn. I feel that it's a tad unfair that Destro has to hard refress all 3 dots when Affl has an auto-refresh on Corruption and Destro has a bam! refresh for Immolate. On top of that, if you look at the interplay I set up between Backdraft, Incinerate, and Soul Fire you'd see that Destro has a nice risk of slapping themselves in the face if they hit Soul Fire at the wrong time... Same for Demo and Molten Core. 20% negative haste on an already long cast time would really aggravate most players. |
|
Look at the original posters raid progression.
As a PvPer, the loss of DPS isn't a huge thing from my understanding, and you would be hard pressed to cast Soul Fire in a BG other then the instant cast variety. Now, in a Raid, things are different. A PvPer, should not be complaining about the QQing coming from raiders about a talent that is mandatory and ridiculous for raiding. He should go back to complaining about PvP problems. |
|
i don't know how good it is yet but when i get to 85 i will try it just like i will try out dark arts wichs is a 15% damge buff to your felhunter,
I see which one dose more dps. I never look up a spec that said it was the best and just use it i try out many of them till i find the one that i like best. |
Sorry Daelyn. I feel that it's a tad unfair that Destro has to hard refress all 3 dots when Affl has an auto-refresh on Corruption and Destro has a bam! refresh for Immolate. On top of that, if you look at the interplay I set up between Backdraft, Incinerate, and Soul Fire you'd see that Destro has a nice risk of slapping themselves in the face if they hit Soul Fire at the wrong time... Same for Demo and Molten Core. 20% negative haste on an already long cast time would really aggravate most players. Well, in that case Destro should see a refresh of Doom, not Corruption. That said, part of the challenge in Destro is keeping those 3 up. Also, having talents that penalize the player when they proc is never a good idea, it's a good way to get a talent labeled as a 'skip' by the player base. Increasing the cast time of Soulfire? No. You need to make the talent such that the player has incentive to cast another spell, not a penalty for not doing so. Aggravating players is not the goal here. That's why my suggestion. Would make ISF much more streamlined without trying to revamp the casting system for Destro (or Demo, for that matter), and would alleviate aggravation rather than shift it. i don't know how good it is yet but when i get to 85 i will try it just like i will try out dark arts wichs is a 15% damge buff to your felhunter, You can get both ISF and Dark Arts with a level 85 Affliction spec. Beyond that, the difference is between 15% haste to both you and your pet (netting 10-15% more damage, depending on the circumstances), or 15% damage to 1/3rd of your pet's damage (who does about 1/10th of your overall damage) |
|
i'm with this. it's a pain in the butt. i never like spreading out along the trees. i thought i was an afflic lock, but it seems afflic isn't powerful enough so i have to go half destro just to do some damage? pfft. |
|
Edited by Jermichael on 12/4/10 5:36 PM (PST)
As an affliction lock I find it hard casting a long fire damage spell. Why can't they change the talent to something more unique to all specs and also be useful in pvp. That being said, they can keep the soulfire part in the talent(for demo and destro) but also add the ability to Drain Life for the ISF buff.
It would have to say something like "You increase your spell haste for 15 sec after you deal damage with Soul Fire or after three ticks of Drain Life" This effect has a 15 sec cooldown. Adding the 3 ticks would make the cast times roughly the same. Also this would bring Affliction Mastery into play and also give more use to Drain Life (which all of us affy warlocks would appreciate). The 15 second cooldown would still stink. And yes soulfire's damage probably would be higher than Drain Life but hey at least im casting a shadow spell as affliction. Just a thought, this wouldn't be too hard of a change. Ty for your time. Edit: Also both spells have a reduced cast time as part of the new Soulburn mechanic. Consider that. |
|
I understand that people want to find a way of slimming this down for Affliction and possibly even Demo, but keep in mind that this talent is currently 7 points deep into Destro. That means if any change is implemented that just makes ISF easier to keep up for Aff and Demo, it becomes even more of a mandatory talent. Mandatory subspec talents are bad. The only good solutions are ones that put the talent out of reach of Aff and Demo, compensate them for its loss, and make it less of a hassle for Destro.
|
