offensive dispels need to be reworked.

85 Draenei Priest
7295
Dispels cost close to 4000 mana at 85 If i remember corrently, it won't be something that non-heal spec classes spam (you need crazy regen to support it).
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The dispel system needs reworking, not just offensive dispels.

And mana cost is not a good way to balance overpowered abilities.
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85 Human Mage
9415
12/04/2010 3:17 AMPosted by Lunescar
Offensive dispels don't need any work....they just need to do another pass at what buffs you can dispel and what you can't.


Could give all healers a second type of dispel similar in fashion to how mass dispel functions (that it can remove special buffs, not the mass dispel portion). Removing an iceblock or pally bubble is doable by a priest, but more costly (cast + double mana cost) to do.

Then can throw more important buffs/cds into that classification. Indeed putting a cooldown on all dispels wouldn't be a solution, nor just a mana cost increase. But splitting dispels into two forms could allow more careful balancing (spells divided up, possible cd, more mana, cast time).
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
13695
First of all I think all offensive dispels need to be reworked to remove one effect only. The multiple effect removal is quite absurd now in the era of no trash buffs and no dispel protection. The stacking cost idea could also work, but this would also have to apply to spellsteal. I do also think they need to take a look at certain abilities and make them immune to the dispel/spellsteal mechanic, especially long CD abilities.

Seeing as how offensive dispels/spellsteal are mainly PvP concerns I don't see why they don't just add in a certain percentage of dispel protection in with resilience. This, along with making offensive dispels remove one effect only would be the easiest changes to implement, and would have little to no effect on PvE.
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85 Human Paladin
5835
12/03/2010 7:19 PMPosted by Roghtar
Mana cost will never be a factor when deciding whether or not to remove a 30sec - 3min cooldown.
The answer is always yes.

Cooldown would balance 1v1, but cause issues in group play.

I can see some merit in the peggle idea.. =p

What dispels need is opportunity cost and a deterrent to spamming. Some ideas:

Spam deterrent: Mana cost doubles each cast (lasts 5 seconds). This would mean a single though-out dispel would be fine, but spamming your enemy team clean of buffs would oom you in under 15 seconds. Multiplicative cost so it would be 1x, 2x, 4x, 8x, 16x mana cost. and so forth.

Opportunity cost:
I dont think this can ever be balanced with what dispels are capable of removing. A better solution would be to have essential or powerful cooldowns have a backlash (much like Unstable Affliction) if they're removed.

If removing a Hand of Freedom means you get stunned for 5 seconds, you would certainly think twice.

If purge spamming Pain Suppression meant you took an extra 30% damage for 5 seconds, you'd think about it.


Pretty much this. High Mana cost will never be a meaningful deterrent, no matter how much mana matters. You can remove something like Wings or HoP that's 2-3 min you will not have to deal with that ability again, plenty of time to regenerate that mana.

Giving a penalty for dispelling major cooldowns will give an actual choice. Using the example in a quote, if dispelling that Hand of Freedom would stun you for 5 sec, you'd think twice. You'd be forced to ask questions like "Is that paladin having snare immunity really problematic enough that I stun myself?"

That's a meaningful choice, not spending a minor mana cost to dispel something you probably won't see again for a match.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
10155
Blizz really needs to fix the annoying bug that eats posts during the submit process. ><

Opportunity cost is at the heart of the issue. In a situation where the buff can be re-applied soon after being removed for a cheaper opportunity cost than the offensive dispel, it isn't a problem. The guy spamming dispel will either die because the other team is still putting out pressure since he is producing zero damage or it ends up deadlocking because the other guy matches him GCD for GCD.

I don't have an issue with CDs being countered, no one should have a "IWIN" button. That said, and this has been said numerous times, the answer is always "yes" to removing buffs on a thirty second or longer CD when the cost is a GCD and mana (especially, if the spec doing it is dps and designed to not hard OOM barring extreme incompetence). There is no reason for dispels to remove more than one buff now that RNG resistance and trash buffs are gone. I'm sad that the devs can't find more corrective and fair counter tools for the big dps CDs.

I'm also wondering if they've taken a solid look at all the buffs. Some of it feels really inconsistent and that the only justification for the "why" is flavor. This is a part of the game design where the flavor is fairly minor and that flavor really should take a back seat to balance.
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80 Human Warlock
4020
Ummm would it help if i pointed out you can CC the one that is dispeling than pop your cooldowns. But I am crazy
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85 Human Paladin
6595
I like the idea of having each dispell to duplicate its cost, but honestly I think is a matter of making some essential buffs non-dispellable. It's also an easier fix, hence something we can expect.
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85 Dwarf Priest
3860
12/04/2010 7:28 AMPosted by Xintaer
Dispels cost close to 4000 mana at 85 If i remember corrently, it won't be something that non-heal spec classes spam (you need crazy regen to support it).


OOM > dead

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85 Human Paladin
4605
5% total mana imo or 6 sec CD
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