Holy Damage vs. Collossus Smash

90 Human Paladin
10065
Why is collossus smash ok when holy damage is OP b/c it ignores mitigations?

Double standard?
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7235
We cant deal 100% holy damage and i think a lot of rets would agree with that.

Colossus smash will more than likely be nerfed if it proves to be as OP as it sounds.

I would really love it TV dealt some holy damage. Its the centerpiece of our rotation and it needs to be effective against plate.

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90 Human Paladin
10065
12/04/2010 5:53 AMPosted by Dogpower
Because Colossus Smash will be nerfed very quickly once Blizzard realizes how overpowered it is once they turn arenas back on.

Dealing unresistable Holy damage that cannot be mitigated in any way would be exactly the same.


I mean that's my point. Blizzard is SO cautious with holy damage. Ret damage is mostly physical right now, which makes almost no sense. But they're ok with collossus smash? Are they that blind? It's more or less the same thing.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
12965
Funny, I could've sworn exorcism does anywhere in the ballpark range of 20-35k of unmitigated holy damage and accounts for 20%~ of a paladin's damage breakdown.
Not to mention other holy damage abilities unmitigated by armor:
Seal of truth
Hammer of wrath
GOAK

Inquisition which will buff holy damage done, thereby increasing the obscenity of exorcism @ 85 (it hits very hard)

Yea, paladins are totally getting mitigated by armor by an obscene amount.
Edited by Marliene on 12/4/2010 6:18 AM PST
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
7235
12/04/2010 6:10 AMPosted by Marliene
Funny, I could've sworn exorcism does anywhere in the ballpark range of 20-35k of unmitigated holy damage and accounts for 20%~ of a paladin's damage breakdown.

Not to mention other holy damage abilities unmitigated by armor:

Seal of truth
Hammer of wrath
GOAK

Yea, paladins are totally getting mitigated by armor by an obscene amount.


while i agree that there is a nice amount of holy damage in our arsenal, these attacks that you mentioned are not as reliable as you make them out to be.

HoW is only active with wings or <20% damage

Exo is totally random. Its nice when you get a chain of procs, and its horrible when you get none =(

Umm from what i hear, GoAK is not even worth mentioning lol

like i said above, TV dealing a small bit of holy damage so that it doesnt hit like a feather against plate would be all we need in terms of damage.

(although, i would love to be rid of holy wrath out of the single target rotation...)
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90 Human Paladin
10065
12/04/2010 6:10 AMPosted by Marliene
Funny, I could've sworn exorcism does anywhere in the ballpark range of 20-35k of unmitigated holy damage and accounts for 20%~ of a paladin's damage breakdown.

Not to mention other holy damage abilities unmitigated by armor:

Seal of truth
Hammer of wrath
GOAK

Yea, paladins are totally getting mitigated by armor by an obscene amount.


exorcism crits for 15k in pvp on targets with no resilience.

seal of truth hits for abysmal amounts, it's not even worth using in PVP.

hammer of wrath hits for like 7k on targets with resilience

GOAK hits for 2k a swing on beta.

Something like 75% of our damage is physical.

In contrast, our biggest nuke, TV, which takes a substantial amount of time to build up, hits for like 5k on targets with any resilience and is pretty much worthless.

You really want to compare all that to a warrior with 100% arpen for 6s multiple times in a pvp battle?
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
12965
12/04/2010 6:17 AMPosted by Malachi
exorcism crits for 15k in pvp on targets with no resilience.

If you're going to talk about abilities at level 85, might as well talk about numbers that happen at 85.
Unless you never played and are just making baseless assumptions?
Edited by Marliene on 12/4/2010 6:21 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
10065
12/04/2010 6:21 AMPosted by Marliene
12/04/2010 6:17 AMPosted by Malachi
exorcism crits for 15k in pvp on targets with no resilience.

If you're going to talk about abilities at level 85, might as well talk about numbers that happen at 85.
Unless you never played and are just making baseless assumptions?


I'm not going to argue with you.

100% arpen for 6s is akin to ALL of a ret paladin's damage going holy for 6s. How fast would that be taken away?

Who is burstier even without CS? Oh right, warriors.

I'm not complaining about warriors, or collossus smash. I'm saying that blizzard is quite happy to contradict itself quite often.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
12965
I'm not going to argue with you.
100% arpen for 6s is akin to ALL of a ret paladin's damage going holy for 6s. How fast would that be taken away?
Who is burstier even without CS? Oh right, warriors.
I'm not complaining about warriors, or collossus smash. I'm saying that blizzard is quite happy to contradict itself quite often.

CS was created to fill the gap left behind with the removal of ARP as a stat. I doubt you've ever played a warrior, but certain classes (paladin, tank presence DK, bear druid, etc.) were absolutely miserable to deal with, even with the arp stat in the game because of how much damage they would mitigate and having absolutely no way to overcome it.

CS allows warriors to view all targets as equal game in terms of damage output, just like DKs and paladins do right now. If you choose to ignore the value of having magic damage then that's your choice and you can downplay it all you want. However, having a class based 100% on physical damage and with no way to bypass armor stacked classes is just stupid. I doubt they'll ever nerf CS from 100% armor pen. More likely they'll do something else like have it activate the CD on HS to reduce burst potential.
Edited by Marliene on 12/4/2010 7:00 AM PST
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
12965
12/04/2010 6:57 AMPosted by Jpmlöl
Colossus Smash is absurdly overpowered. Looking forward to running TSG!

Now why on earth would you do something like that? 2 DKS for double necrotic strike stacking is far superior. It's quite literally the very definition of unhealable damage lol!!
Edited by Marliene on 12/4/2010 7:06 AM PST
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90 Human Paladin
10065
12/04/2010 6:59 AMPosted by Marliene
I'm not going to argue with you.
100% arpen for 6s is akin to ALL of a ret paladin's damage going holy for 6s. How fast would that be taken away?
Who is burstier even without CS? Oh right, warriors.
I'm not complaining about warriors, or collossus smash. I'm saying that blizzard is quite happy to contradict itself quite often.

CS was created to fill the gap left behind with the removal of ARP as a stat. I doubt you've ever played a warrior, but certain classes (paladin, tank presence DK, bear druid, etc.) were absolutely miserable to deal with, even with the arp stat in the game because of how much damage they would mitigate and having absolutely no way to overcome it.

CS allows warriors to view all targets as equal game in terms of damage output, just like DKs and paladins do right now. If you choose to ignore the value of having magic damage then that's your choice and you can downplay it all you want. However, having a class based 100% on physical damage and with no way to bypass armor stacked classes is just stupid. I doubt they'll ever nerf CS from 100% armor pen. More likely they'll do something else like have it activate the CD on HS to reduce burst potential.


I don't understand why you're so hard up on ret holy damage. It's bad. Not to mention our physical damage doesn't make up for it.

I imagine Collolus Smash will get nerfed pretty quickly.
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82 Troll Druid
2755
Different classes are different and have different abilities which do different amounts of damage, and different proportions of overall damage, and have different costs and different cooldowns.

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90 Draenei Death Knight
13225
The problem with Colossus Smash isn't Colossus Smash. Its Sudden Death. On its own Colossus Smash is only up ~46% of the time. That's about equal to a Frost DK (and other specs) in terms of non-physical damage. With Sudden Death, it gets into the 55%+ range which is beyond ridiculous.

I don't expect Colossus Smash to be nerfed directly. But I expect Sudden Death to be gutted.
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90 Gnome Warrior
8050
12/04/2010 7:21 AMPosted by Jpmlöl
12/04/2010 7:06 AMPosted by Marliene

Now why on earth would you do something like that? 2 DKS for double necrotic strike stacking is far superior. It's quite literally the very definition of unhealable damage lol!!


Because a second DK would not be able to deal 70K damage in a 6 second window on PVP geared players like a warrior is
At 85 , PvP geared players will all do 70K damage in 6 sec lol get off your high horse like warrior could be the ONLY one doing that

Oh and to that other idiot paladin, warrior are far from Ret Burst when CS is NOT up, its higher with it but it isnt always Up
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90 Human Paladin
10065
12/04/2010 7:28 AMPosted by Zanur
12/04/2010 7:21 AMPosted by Jpmlöl
[quote="12199525375"]
Now why on earth would you do something like that? 2 DKS for double necrotic strike stacking is far superior. It's quite literally the very definition of unhealable damage lol!!

Because a second DK would not be able to deal 70K damage in a 6 second window on PVP geared players like a warrior is
At 85 , PvP geared players will all do 70K damage in 6 sec lol get off your high horse like warrior could be the ONLY one doing that
Oh and to that other idiot paladin, warrior are far from Ret Burst when CS is NOT up, its higher with it but it isnt always Up

clearly I'm the idiot. I'm glad you think ret burst is good, considering it's nearly 100% rng based.
Edited by Malachi on 12/4/2010 7:33 AM PST
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