Not at all happy with rogues

80 Human Rogue
5500
I am very disappointed with rogues. What happened to the "It is a design flaw rogues are dependent on preparation."? Well with prep not accessible to assassination the spec is abysmal in pvp. Assassination and Combat Rogues being able to "go toe to toe" more is negated with the inability to stay in melee range. "If assassination rogues are getting kited to death we will fix it"..... well they are.

Why are mutilate specs required to sub spec subtlety? Why are subtlety specs required to sub spec assassination? I thought the whole point of the new trees was more choices not less. Move imp backstab to the ambush talent. Make puncturing wounds also increase mutilate damage. Seems a simple change and it has been suggested 1,000,000 times.

PvE damage is way too low. 70% of our DPS is "passive" attacks (poisons, auto attack, etc). I don't consider envenom buff and slice and dice to be "non passive". We were told yellow damage would be increased and it was not. In fact in mutilate's case yellow damage is lower. With the nerf to raid buffs rogues are too far behind. I am struggling to beat tanks. Mastery needs to increase envenom damage. Why it increases poison damage and not envenom makes no sense.

Vanish is still being broken by pets. Mirror images are breaking vanish from 30 yards away. For specs without prep vanish has to be flawless. Anything less is unacceptable.

In short, the whole class feels incomplete. Level 60 mechanics coupled with level 60 specs (31-2-8 is very similar to 31-8-12). Rogues need to be updated.

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90 Night Elf Rogue
16115
I was definitely expecting some antikite in combat and mutilate. Mutiprep used prep largely to stay on target when time for a kill (and you were doing well if you forced prep use defensively).

Instead those specs got... Dubious situational utility. Combat has some really cool stuff like an amazing improved gouge, an improved kick actually worth talenting, and improved sprint being better by virtue of 1 minute sprint. But it lost the ability at push kidney shot through frontal avoidance, and the awesomeness of Unfair Advantage. 7.8 second stun goes a long way here though!
Mutilate is very confused in pvp. Envemon is affected by mastery, by the way. But the assassination toolkit doesn't seem very assassiny. You have the ability to get a bunch of active buffs and debuffs active- EA, then slice and dice, then Envemon erupts the second and the first hardly costs anything. But how do you stay on that target? This is I think the only spec in the game that you can just walk away from with any gap creation.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
16115
I was definitely expecting some antikite in combat and mutilate. Mutiprep used prep largely to stay on target when time for a kill (and you were doing well if you forced prep use defensively).

Instead those specs got... Dubious situational utility. Combat has some really cool stuff like an amazing improved gouge, an improved kick actually worth talenting, and improved sprint being better by virtue of 1 minute sprint. But it lost the ability at push kidney shot through frontal avoidance, and the awesomeness of Unfair Advantage. 7.8 second stun goes a long way here though!
Mutilate is very confused in pvp. Envemon is affected by mastery, by the way. But the assassination toolkit doesn't seem very assassiny. You have the ability to get a bunch of active buffs and debuffs active- EA, then slice and dice, then Envemon erupts the second and the first hardly costs anything. But how do you stay on that target? This is I think the only spec in the game that you can just walk away from with any gap creation.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
16115
*Envenom reups the second

Anyway both specs are hella kited.
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I am struggling to beat tanks.

Sounds like a personal problem.
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80 Blood Elf Death Knight
2465
If you're not happy with the class, reroll. I played a rogue all throughout wotlk and suffered through Naxx 3.0 as well as the Mut nerfs. Somewhere along the way I realized that the devs "vision" for the class was different than mine and I moved on.
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80 Human Rogue
5500
I noticed envenom is affected by the increase to deadly poison but with my 58% increase from mastery I don't think it is directly effecting envenom. If it is increasing it then envenom needs a buff.

Not that I don't believe you but it seems the damage is too low with that amount of mastery. Regardless, I think every rogue can agree that the major class changes we were expecting didn't happen and they probably won't happen in a content patch either.
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80 Human Rogue
5500
12/04/2010 9:04 AMPosted by Valkyrii
If you're not happy with the class, reroll. I played a rogue all throughout wotlk and suffered through Naxx 3.0 as well as the Mut nerfs. Somewhere along the way I realized that the devs "vision" for the class was different than mine and I moved on.



I have alts that I am considering making my main. However rolling a new character doesn't solve the problem that rogues need to be fixed. Besides posts of "reroll" and "L2P" and the like don't really do anything but derail threads.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
19035
Making shadowstep baseline for every spec of rogue would be a huge benefit and not game breaking. It's a fun, extremely mobile move on the same cooldown as blink that allows for rogues to do the job they are supposed to do. I still don't understand why it's not available to all specs. Mages get blink in all specs, I don't see why shadowstep for all rogue specs would be any different.
Edited by Audaldas on 12/4/2010 9:16 AM PST
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85 Gnome Warlock
3330
Rogues have been the same since 3- patch series and i dont think they lost any GOOD talent skills. I saw one pve T11 diagram and rogues were least in dps. Improvement needed there. But pvp nothing really has changed for them... I think
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
9740
What makes warriors think they should have multiple gap closers with the amount of damage they can do?
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80 Human Rogue
5500
12/04/2010 9:32 AMPosted by Mefightnow
OP what makes you think you're supposed to stay in melee range with the amount of damage assassin can do?


Because assassination is less damage than all casters, arms and fury warriors, frost and unholy DKs? Contrary to the undergeared and underskilled masses rogue damage is average at best. If rogue was super high they wouldn't be struggling in raids would they?
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80 Human Rogue
5500
12/04/2010 9:53 AMPosted by Mefightnow
12/04/2010 9:48 AMPosted by Romulus
[quote="12199125567"]OP what makes you think you're supposed to stay in melee range with the amount of damage assassin can do?

Because assassination is less damage than all casters, arms and fury warriors, frost and unholy DKs? Contrary to the undergeared and underskilled masses rogue damage is average at best. If rogue was super high they wouldn't be struggling in raids would they?[/quote]
Wrong. Assassinations new niche is that it ignores more armor (via poisons) than any other melee class in the game period. Assassination can and does do a lot of damage in pvp it can't stay on the target for to long because it puts out extreme burst and unhealable pressure.[/quote]
Assassination does not ignore more armor than any DK except blood. I play both classes and most of frost DK damage completely ignores armor. Unholy with its gattling coil spam and disease damage ignores more armor than mutilate rogues. As far as unhealable pressure try killing a resto anything as a rogue.
Edited by Romulus on 12/4/2010 10:07 AM PST
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90 Undead Rogue
13680
12/04/2010 9:53 AMPosted by Mefightnow
Wrong. Assassinations new niche is that it ignores more armor (via poisons) than any other melee class in the game period. Assassination can and does do a lot of damage in pvp it can't stay on the target for to long because it puts out extreme burst and unhealable pressure.

http://www.wowhead.com/spell=86346
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90 Undead Rogue
13680
12/04/2010 10:17 AMPosted by Mefightnow
Powerful yes. Low uptime also yes.This is a discussion about rogues not warriors. But warriors still do the most physical damage than out of all other classes/specs and thats including colossus smash.

So you admit that Warriors still do the most physical damage than out of all other classes and specs, and they have a cooldown that allows them to ignore all armor, and can be used in conjunction with other damaging cooldowns.
And yet Assassination needs low uptime for the damage that it does while Warriors retain their mobility.
So clearly it's not a problem if Assassination gets the same mobility. That is unless you're willing to admit Warriors need to be penalized the same way.
Next you're going to tell me "different classes are different," so we can pile that on with the rest of the bull@*## you fling out.
Edited by Kanoi on 12/4/2010 10:27 AM PST
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