"Healing is complex, yay!" -_-;

80 Tauren Paladin
1980
12/06/2010 9:08 AMPosted by Cealle
For one, they need to get rid of our reliance on the horrible HoPo system. It's pointless all around. The only place where it even slightly fits is with the Ret spec, it really has no place as a healer and any heals from HoPo tend to get grossly ignored.


Sweeping generalizations... Why do you make this claim? I don't ignore Holy Power. I use it a lot, and I enjoy it.

If YOU personally dislike Holy Power, fine, great, that's valid. But so far you either are applying your own personal opinions to the class as complete and utter fact, OR you have some other basis for saying this that I'd really like to hear.
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85 Human Paladin
5180
Reread what a generalization is. Then realize we are discussion/voicing opinions. Then edit your post after you realize it's not a generalization.

Why waste a CD on something when other tools work better.

LoD is crap due to vague positioning requirements, and WoG is a sloppy HS at best that barely heals for any amount. Great for on the move healing though, which is welcome.

That's great people enjoy the scraps of blizzards design team meals, but really HoPo needs to go!

I should make that my mantra... >_>
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80 Tauren Paladin
1980
OK, so, it is just your opinion then.

You keep voicing your opinions as complete and total fact for the whole class. Hence, the generalizations.

I don't know why you're being so combative about it. I'm trying to be reasonable and have a decent discussion here.
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85 Human Paladin
5180
Because you're making unreasonable assumptions instead of having a discussion. :)
That's why.

If you don't understand that someone typing out a post here is based on personal opinion of a long played class, well... then I don't really know how to explain it better to you.

Tip: Anything, anyone says on here is 99% personal opinion based on personal experience. Don't take it any other way.
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80 Tauren Paladin
1980
Assuming that someone speaking something as fact is actually trying to state a fact, is an unreasonable assumption?

Thanks for further eroding my tatters of faith in humanity.
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85 Human Paladin
5180
12/06/2010 9:47 AMPosted by Ashodoran
Assuming that someone speaking something as fact is actually trying to state a fact, is an unreasonable assumption?

Thanks for further eroding my tatters of faith in humanity.


Mhmm
Keep pushing that thought process.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9300
Ashodoran: Cealle wasn't presenting her opinions "as fact", she was just saying her opinions. Let go of that "as fact" mantra, read her posts again, and then you two can have a discussion.

Cealle: He's under the impression you were presenting "fact(s)" for...some reason I don't get. Must just be how he read your posts. I'd just let it go, were I you.

Orocowsaki: Funny you say I have a 3rd grade reading level, yet you couldn't make it through my post. If you had, you'd realize I have better than a 3rd grade writing level, which should draw some lines in your brain to tell you I have better than a 3rd grade reading level as well.

Additionally - I have no intentions on giving up healing on my Paladin, though I may make Prot my main spec and Holy my secondary (as it currently is, Holy is my main and Prot my secondary.)

The system isn't that much harder, and it's not so much "complex" as it forces me to have a "rotation". Since, you know, it's HEALERS, not just DPS, that are supposed to use a "rotation". <_<

And, as I said in my post, I've healed on a Holy Priest before (also, Disc in non-raid situations and Druid in a little of both.) So I'm fully capable of grasping the system and using it.



To everyone else: ...the thing is, I just don't really LIKE it that much. I'm doing it "the right way" right now. I HL spam the Beacon to generate HP, if I actually have to HEAL the Beacon, I use FoL (cause HL isn't strong enough) or, more correctly, I use the WoG's from the HP I'm storing up using HL. If that isn't enough, THEN I use FoLs.

If DPS insist on getting agro, I have to FoL them now if I don't have 3HP stored up for a WoG (in the past, I would SS them then throw on a FoL which, with its SS HoT, would heal them back up to full and the shield had the additional benefit of preventing spell pushback on them.)

I use LoD when I get 3 HP instead of WoG if 2+ people are taking damage and I have a reasonable chance of catching them all in the cone.


I never use DL, at present, but that's because I haven't been healing any raids (did heal part of an ICC 10 for a weekly (we went ahead and took out the second boss, but Lootship took out the raid because PuG DPS weren't good at listening to directions [seriously, if your cannon is frozen solid and the tank and a healer jet to the other ship...DON'T STAY IN THE CANNON!!]) It's possible that DL servers a purpose for raid healing.


Overall, the current changes are...interesting, but I'm not sure they're COMPELLING.

-We still spam HL, just instead of HEALING with it, it's to generate HP so we can HEAL with something else (WoG, usually.)

-Now, instead of reactively healing with HL, we're trying to prepare to heal by using HL/HS to build HP. If we don't have 3HP up for a potent WoG, we have to use the inefficient FoL.

-Without SS, we cannot proactively heal (SS was our only "preemptive" heal, as we have no HoTs.)


And my biggest dislike about the new system:

-Rotation.

Rotation is a word for what DPSers do, and to a lesser extent, tanks.

In the past healers have been reactive - that is, something happens, we react to it. In some cases (for Paladins, SS, for Druids...most of their heals [being HoTs], for Priests bubbles, mending, ect., for Shaman, choice of some totems, Earth Shield [why our SS was taken away but they get to keep ES...]), pre-active.

Now, though, we have to do a lot of set-up. Namely Beacon, HL spam on Beacon, HS if we need to build HP but need to heal someone other than the Beacon, ect. This forces us into a "rotation". Something like HS>HL>HL>WoG/LoD>repeat.

I don't like THAT.


To me, a healer (and DPS) mana management is better served by proper use of pots and CDs (think things like Divine Plea, Evocation, Innervate, ect.) instead of having to choose whether or not to cast a heal. This is the way it's been since BC, for the most part.

Now, that said, in Vanilla, Priest stopcasting Greater Heal was the norm. So maybe this is what we're moving back towards? But, again, that's preparative healing, NOT reactive healing.


One could argue it takes more brains to do this kind of healing, as you must anticipate damage and know the fights. Personally, I prefer my skill assessment to be based on my ability to react to situations rather than to predict them. After all, reaction is based on rational perception. Preaction is based on prophetic vision. Are healers now to be prophets?
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9300
And, really, reactive healing is where good healers shine. The ability to adapt to a situation and react accordingly to keep your people alive.

The new system takes that ability away from us because if we don't already have HP generated from our "rotation", our "reaction" is limited to one HS every 6 seconds and spaming FoL to combat the incoming damage. And even IF we had the HP to begin with, that gives us only ONE WoG/LoD to use before we have to begin that same FoL spam.


...now, if we had a CD that generated HP? Like maybe a talent that when we used Avenging Wrath, our HS's generated 3HP? Then this would make more sense. We'd have a CD to use in those situations. Knowing when to use this CD to boost your output (HS/WoG instead of FoL spam) would determine if a healer was uber efficient or ran out of mana quickly in these clutch situations.

As it is, there is no such possible "display" of skill. A good healer OR a bad healer will have to spam FoL in those situations. A good healer will afterwords pot and pop DP and hope they can get enough mana to heal while a bad healer will just sit there and watch everyone die.

I don't think that's a good determiner of skill. <_<


That is to say: We have OPTIONS in what spells to use, but we have the choice of either really weak spells or really inefficient ones, and no CD management to change it up.

I dunno, maybe we're supposed to pop AW and use HL spam in those situations? o.O
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9300
BTW: Sorry if I came off as overly whiny or QQ-ey. I just really love my Paladin. I love the class and I like the character since he's my second oldest and I've done a lot of stuff on him, including most of my "first times" to do things.

I'm trying to withhold final judgment until I can get to 85, see all our spells and such, and see how it all works at the level/gear they've designed it for. I'm also trying to approach the changes with rational analysis in deciding how well they're working, and keeping in mind the change to the healing paradigm that Bliz is trying to accomplish.


But I also see some potential problems. That and I really hate letting people die. As a healer, it just seems like I'm letting people down/failing in my job. Healing numbers on recount don't matter to me, but keeping my friends alive does.

...this is what makes me a healer. ^_^



On the plus side, Prot IS really fun right now, and I got to tank my first PuGs yesterday since I had a couple friends along (one of which is a good Shamy healer I could trust to keep me alive, lol.) Was actually pretty fun. Told the DPSers that got thrown into our group I was a new tank and to take it easy on the agro, and it worked out well. Even got a few compliments on my tanking. ^_^

But I still like healing and the Holy kit and just WANT it to work.
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90 Dwarf Paladin
0
I think my main gripe with the changes.. doesn't revolve around all the new spells and adding complexity.. so much as the detachment from the game-play that is necessary to keep track of holy power. HoPo and WoG is obviously going to be a major mana "regen"/ saver ability, thus it's something that we really have to track. All that is done by taking focus from the the fight and putting focus on the frames and UI. I realize that it's not unexpected to have class watching for runes/power/rage and such, but I personally shy from those classes. So for me, my paladin I've loved for 5 years is a little less fun than other healers.
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90 Tauren Paladin
0
12/06/2010 8:28 AMPosted by Cealle
BTW, if you honestly think you won't be spamming the same 2-3 spells over and over again, you're blind.


Quote for truth. Healing is the same old spamming-a-few-buttons it's always been. Just now with a new free insta-heal and cone heal!
Edited by Mcfoxx on 12/6/2010 5:24 PM PST
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