Chakra's current iteration

90 Human Priest
13020
I'd like to make some specific points about the current iteration of Chakra, after raiding with it for a week or two.

1) the State of Mind mechanic should put more time back on Chakra. I know some people have said that the talent is worthless because Chakra lasts as long as its CD, but the ability to ignore your Chakra buff for long stretches is still very helpful at times.

2) Chakra: Sanctuary is a little too difficult to maintain. When POH refreshed Chakra: Sanctuary on a per-target basis, it was pretty easy. Now, stacking up that 4 seconds is a lot harder since you can't really spam POH or POM. It needs to get extended a little bit more by State of Mind than it currently does so we don't have to babysit it quite as much.

3) It would be nice if it would be made clearer which spells fell under which Chakra, unambiguously. Perhaps put a note on each spell's tooltip, even just a little icon or something.

4) Chakra: Serenity - I think this would be a more attractive state if it gave healing instead of crit. The crit is still pretty nice though, and I think the increased health pools should make this a more attractive Chakra.

Overall, the Chakra system does cut into reaction tme, but that may be just because we're getting used to the system.

I'm not a big fan of Chakra (okay I hate it) but I am willing to live with it and try to improve it.
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90 Night Elf Druid
13680
You're more dedicated than I am. I don't play mine any more. We all know that having broken them, Blizzard will not fix the holy spec by getting rid of Chakra. Blizzard has broken holy priests for the last time in my book.
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81 Blood Elf Priest
2305
Remember when we all thought we could fix lightwell?

Those were the days.
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85 Tauren Priest
5875
12/04/2010 12:42 AMPosted by Felade
1) the State of Mind mechanic should put more time back on Chakra. I know some people have said that the talent is worthless because Chakra lasts as long as its CD, but the ability to ignore your Chakra buff for long stretches is still very helpful at times.

2) Chakra: Sanctuary is a little too difficult to maintain. When POH refreshed Chakra: Sanctuary on a per-target basis, it was pretty easy. Now, stacking up that 4 seconds is a lot harder since you can't really spam POH or POM. It needs to get extended a little bit more by State of Mind than it currently does so we don't have to babysit it quite as much.

3) It would be nice if it would be made clearer which spells fell under which Chakra, unambiguously. Perhaps put a note on each spell's tooltip, even just a little icon or something.

4) Chakra: Serenity - I think this would be a more attractive state if it gave healing instead of crit. The crit is still pretty nice though, and I think the increased health pools should make this a more attractive Chakra.

1) Is State of Mind not working properly? Or are you suggesting the bonus be bigger?

2) I think the addition of POM but the (apparent) removal of a multi-target POH bonus work out okay. It's no trivial thing to keep up Heal Chakra either, in a situation that demands you use a variety of spells.

4) I think crit works better for Inspiration. Otherwise Holy Priests would be short 10% crit compared to Discipline Priests (which could affect effectiveness/desirability for tank healing).
Edited by Believe on 12/4/2010 4:15 AM PST
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90 Human Priest
7710
12/04/2010 12:42 AMPosted by Felade

1) the State of Mind mechanic should put more time back on Chakra. I know some people have said that the talent is worthless because Chakra lasts as long as its CD, but the ability to ignore your Chakra buff for long stretches is still very helpful at times.

In general, I don't mind it now. I'd like it to be easier to maintain the chakra states, but right now it's challenging without being so consuming as to detract from the goal--healing people. The notable exception being:

2) Chakra: Sanctuary is a little too difficult to maintain. When POH refreshed Chakra: Sanctuary on a per-target basis, it was pretty easy. Now, stacking up that 4 seconds is a lot harder since you can't really spam POH or POM. It needs to get extended a little bit more by State of Mind than it currently does so we don't have to babysit it quite as much.

Yes. Having five targets provide four seconds each per PoH was too easy, but now it's become far too hard to maintain a state of serenity. On the flip side, with a one minute cooldown and a few PoM/PoHs, you've still got 67%+ uptime on serenity which is plenty IMO. Holy priests don't need to be in a state non-stop, I look at it as a throughput boost for when you need it. That's my personal take; I'm not sure if the devs have stated whether or not they intend for us to keep the states up for prolonged periods without gimping our mana or HPS to do it.

3) It would be nice if it would be made clearer which spells fell under which Chakra, unambiguously. Perhaps put a note on each spell's tooltip, even just a little icon or something.

Now that you mention, I do find myself peeking at my talents' tooltips at least once a day (and a lot more often when I was learning what my states did).

4) Chakra: Serenity - I think this would be a more attractive state if it gave healing instead of crit. The crit is still pretty nice though, and I think the increased health pools should make this a more attractive Chakra.

I like it as it is. It's good to proc Inspiration with AoE heals, and this gives your PoH/PoM/CoH even more chance to get everyone that 10% less damage received. They really ought to add HW:Serenity to that list though, since it's actual healing is next to useless... procs from its healing ticks would make it valuable for something besides pretty lights. Of course, physical mitigation isn't worth as much on a bossfight as it is in a trash-pull-gone-bad situation or in a battleground.

Overall, the Chakra system does cut into reaction tme, but that may be just because we're getting used to the system.

I'm not a big fan of Chakra (okay I hate it) but I am willing to live with it and try to improve it.

I eased myself into the states with the attitude of "4.0 made me better even without chakra, so I'm just going to slowly add its usefulness into my repertoire." That's also why I have an attitude of "we don't need to be in a state all the time, 50% uptime is more than enough."
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85 Blood Elf Priest
7755
I am not a numbers cruncher on theorycrafting, and not having been in the BETA, I have no personal knowledge of how it works at level 85.

It seems that Blizzard took the class and spec (holy priest) with the least spamming, with the most spells, and with the weakest throughput (If shield absorbtion is counted, as it properly is), and saddled it with additional spells via an intermediary and clunky mechanic that requires you to anticipate the future and even when played well, adds too little throughput.

Holy priests asked for more throughput and others asked for more spells.
Holy priests got more spells and others got more throughput.

Add in that as currently implemented, mana restrictions seem to far more harshly target holy priests in particular, and healing priests in general, than any other healing specs, to the extent that it seems that rather than having a philosophy based on mana restrictions for healers, it is a philosophy of having mana restrictions only for priests.

If Blizzard's goal was to make it so punishing to play a holy priest that the class and specs numbers would be severely reduced, it seems certain to succeed.

If its goal was to give sufficient mana, throughput and spells to every healing class to so balance them that the most skillfully played would consistently produce the best numbers, it seems to have failed.

Those still able to have sufficient mana to spam the fewest healing buttons seem destined to easily continue to produce the best numbers.

It is easy to simply dismiss the lack of balance by saying meters do not matter.
Translation is that it does not matter whether you win or lose, but how you play the game.
Unfortunately, in addition to losing, chakra means playing the game is also more painful.
Edited by Shylena on 12/4/2010 6:28 AM PST
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90 Human Priest
13020
1) Is State of Mind not working properly? Or are you suggesting the bonus be bigger?


The bonus should be bigger. After you consider the GCD, you really only get 1-2 seconds of additional time on your Chakra buff for your casts. That worked fine when Renew set a Chakra state, but you can't really spam POM and POH, so Sanctuary feels like a pretty hard swim upstream.

You should be able to maintain your Chakra state without too much extra effort. With the current Sanc, I"m recasting Chakra every 30-40 seconds, which feels like too much babysitting. Also, if it doesn't line up with my POM cooldown, unless I'm doing a fight that calls for POH I'm sitting there without a Chakra state for several seconds. Clunky is a cliche but its the only word for it.

Holy priests don't need to be in a state non-stop, I look at it as a throughput boost for when you need it.


If you look at the numbers for our spells, and then compare them to other healers, I think you'll find that if you're not in a Chakra state, you're doing it wrong. Losing throughput and wasting mana, specifically.

4) I think crit works better for Inspiration. Otherwise Holy Priests would be short 10% crit compared to Discipline Priests (which could affect effectiveness/desirability for tank healing).


Good point.

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90 Human Priest
7710
12/04/2010 8:20 AMPosted by Felade
If you look at the numbers for our spells, and then compare them to other healers, I think you'll find that if you're not in a Chakra state, you're doing it wrong. Losing throughput and wasting mana, specifically.

Right now you'd be wasting mana to stay in a state since you need to cast unnecessary heals to do so. Asking for each spell to add more time to your state so you can keep it up without wasting mana and GCDs for it, and then saying states are necessary to maximize efficiency, I think that's circular logic.

As it stands, I rarely need to cast so much that I keep my state up full-time. The times where you need to maximize throughput to match damage spikes aren't lasting longer than 40 seconds anyways, so the lost throughput is lost during times where you can afford to heal carefully with efficient spells and little overhealing.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
4055
I agree with most of the OP's concerns. Making Chakra a stance would fix most of them. I don't understand why anyone would think that playing a meta game, to keep a buff rolling so you can simply do your job, would be fun. It might make sense on a DPS class, but on a Healing class most of the focus should be on keeping players alive. Especially with Holy Priests since they have so many different heals to be mindful of.

Meta games work well with Holy Paladins, but that's largely because it would be an extremely simple class without them. Plus Paladin mechanics just work better. If you're good at managing Daybreak, Infusion of Light, and Holy Power, you're rewarded with bursts of increased HPS and HPM. If you master Chakra, all you get is the ability to be on par with other healers.
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80 Blood Elf Priest
5985
Elise, to be perfectly honest, in progression content (so for you I'd say 25man ICC LK and 25man H ICC) you'd be hard pressed to keep people alive if you weren't always in a chakra state.

When you severely outgear content, things seem slot simpler than they are.

In wrath, if you aren't casting a spell every GCD in H ICC 25 then you're doing something wrong and you're gimping your raid. In Cataclysm it will be a totally different healing style (or so Blizzard says) and we'll have to wait and see how priests are doing with Chakra.

My money is on Chakra being fine in Cataclysm at 85, if Blizzard can scale our throughput up to where other healers are, or bring other healers into balance with us.

As it stands, we currently have the worst throughput and mana longevity/regeneration at 85.
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90 Human Priest
7710
12/04/2010 10:24 AMPosted by Sallana
Elise, to be perfectly honest, in progression content (so for you I'd say 25man ICC LK and 25man H ICC) you'd be hard pressed to keep people alive if you weren't always in a chakra state.

So you mean nobody could do progression until the 4.0 talents came out?
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90 Human Priest
7710
12/04/2010 10:35 AMPosted by Azureskíes
No one can until cata is live.

You know what I meant. Sallana is suggesting that progression raiding in WotLK is not feasible without buffs from talents that are new in 4.0.
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90 Human Priest
13020

Right now you'd be wasting mana to stay in a state since you need to cast unnecessary heals to do so. Asking for each spell to add more time to your state so you can keep it up without wasting mana and GCDs for it, and then saying states are necessary to maximize efficiency, I think that's circular logic.


I certainly could spam POH to stay in my state, and then I would certainly be wasting mana. However, POM'ing a tank on cooldown isn't really wasting mana (especially on fights like the Sindragosa or even the LK where POM can be a nice little buffer for the tank and can help with infests/remorseless winter/force lightning/vile spirits). But you can't really POM like a hawk when you're busy trying to cleanse diseases, mop up infest w/ COH, and spam flash heal on the tank all at the same time, so you're doing a lot of Chakra refeshes.

You're going to need to be healing all the time. That won't change in Cata, in fact it will most likely be more true than ever due to larger health pools and less potential for overhealing. You'll want your heals to be their best. Right now, Serenity Chakra will be pretty easy to keep up because you'll be spamming Heal while you're tank healing. However, Sanctuary is going to be harder to keep up, especially in 10s where you may need to break out the single target heals to help your tank healers in a spot of trouble once in awhile.


So you mean nobody could do progression until the 4.0 talents came out?


Before 4.0, you didn't need Chakra to be as effective at throughput as the other healers. With 4.0, they chopped off our healing at the knees, then gave us a pair of stilts and called them Chakra. If you want to be as effective in Cataclysm as you were in 3.3.5, you'll need Chakra (obviously, your numbers may be larger now but that's because the talent's power is balanced for 85).
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85 Draenei Priest
11670
12/04/2010 10:40 AMPosted by Élise
12/04/2010 10:35 AMPosted by Azureskíes
No one can until cata is live.

You know what I meant. Sallana is suggesting that progression raiding in WotLK is not feasible without buffs from talents that are new in 4.0.


Are you really this dense? Chakra wasn't a buff, it was something that justified their slashing of our abilities because with it up we can do as well as we used to. It's not like they left the class exactly the same and added chakra to the top of all the old coefficients.

Chakra is absolutely terrible and the sooner they switch it to a stance (or better yet, do away with it) the better. Holy Word Chastise is even worse thanks to its failure to function properly with mouseover macros (yes, I know about the /tar mouseover /click actionbar # one, it still doesn't work right with the heal one).
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90 Human Priest
13020
(yes, I know about the /tar mouseover /click actionbar # one, it still doesn't work right with the heal one).

Works fine for me. Serenity works, Sanctuary works, Chastise works. No problem. I don't use clique though.
Edited by Felade on 12/4/2010 12:00 PM PST
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12/04/2010 12:42 AMPosted by Felade
I'd like to make some specific points about the current iteration of Chakra, after raiding with it for a week or two.

1) the State of Mind mechanic should put more time back on Chakra. I know some people have said that the talent is worthless because Chakra lasts as long as its CD, but the ability to ignore your Chakra buff for long stretches is still very helpful at times.


The State of Mind being useless camp is incorrect. The talent gives you more flexibility in spell casts. It's not perfect, it's not great, and one could argue there are better alternatives. I agree completely that a duration increase would be great. I would like to see the duration increase boosted to around six seconds (three per point) from four.

2) Chakra: Sanctuary is a little too difficult to maintain. When POH refreshed Chakra: Sanctuary on a per-target basis, it was pretty easy. Now, stacking up that 4 seconds is a lot harder since you can't really spam POH or POM. It needs to get extended a little bit more by State of Mind than it currently does so we don't have to babysit it quite as much.


I disagree. Sanctuary is fine in terms of keeping it active, it just takes getting used to. The biggest thing is to make sure your PoM isn't on CD right before your Chakra Sanctuary state wears off (and this is a big area where SoM is helpful). I have a feeling PoH will see more use in cata as well.

Having said all of that, I would like to see a minor change on HW: Sanctuary to make it more useful on heavy movement encounters. There are several fights (shadow realm halion) that come to mind where you have to be moving frequently. Sanctuary is almost totally useless in these situations as people are rarely able to stand in it long enough for it to benefit much.

3) It would be nice if it would be made clearer which spells fell under which Chakra, unambiguously. Perhaps put a note on each spell's tooltip, even just a little icon or something.


I have to agree here as well. Our mastery says it increases healing from our direct healing spells. However, Echos of Light procs on everything but individual Renew ticks. On the other hand, Chakra Serenity says it boosts the crit chance of all direct healing spells. I am not sure that Serenity boosts the crit chance on PoH/PoM/HW: Sanc ticks though. One would be inclined to think it did based on the wording of our mastery.

4) Chakra: Serenity - I think this would be a more attractive state if it gave healing instead of crit. The crit is still pretty nice though, and I think the increased health pools should make this a more attractive Chakra.


I gotta say, I am 50/50 on this one. Heal itself has fairly low throughput and the higher chance to crit (35 percent increase with HW: Serenity up) gives it a considerable buff if you also include the inspiration bonus. I am actually inclined to think the crit bonus is more helpful than a healing bonus would be for that state.

Overall, the Chakra system does cut into reaction tme, but that may be just because we're getting used to the system.

I'm not a big fan of Chakra (okay I hate it) but I am willing to live with it and try to improve it.


I don't like it either. I will use it if I am forced to but the entire concept seems flawed. Granted, it has been improved dramatically with the recent changes.
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85 Human Priest
3915
I lol'd. Is it really that hard to use Chakra? I try to avoid coming on priests or healing forums due to the amount of QQ about this spell. It's fine. l2p
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85 Human Priest
9140
12/04/2010 9:21 AMPosted by Highbeams
I agree with most of the OP's concerns. Making Chakra a stance would fix most of them. I don't understand why anyone would think that playing a meta game, to keep a buff rolling so you can simply do your job, would be fun. It might make sense on a DPS class, but on a Healing class most of the focus should be on keeping players alive. Especially with Holy Priests since they have so many different heals to be mindful of.

Meta games work well with Holy Paladins, but that's largely because it would be an extremely simple class without them. Plus Paladin mechanics just work better. If you're good at managing Daybreak, Infusion of Light, and Holy Power, you're rewarded with bursts of increased HPS and HPM. If you master Chakra, all you get is the ability to be on par with other healers.


I just want to quote this because I couldn't have said it better myself.
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