Ret Dps needs help

90 Human Paladin
11935
We really going to need some buffs come release , this is the first time in along time where i felt like i would have to change specs because rets have no place now . I havent felt this way since vanilla " the days Paladins where Healers that was it if you wanted to raid "

I didnt think i would see the day i was 12th on the charts "12k" on saurfang . It was just a fun run But still only to pull 12k i used to do atleast 15k with the old system . Even with the new Hp changes i was around 15-17k. On bosses outside of ICC buff i used to hold atleast 10k now sitting around 8-9 .

I dont see how this is going to scale in our favor , From what beta people are saying rets dont look any better at 85 .

I dont need to be tops dps , i didnt need to do 22k like warriors in WoTLK was fine with being solid 15-17k , but now we really bring nothing "Holy&Prot can bring the same buffs" to raiding if where lowest on the charts .

With all the 10 man raiding thats going to be happening theres so many better classes to bring in now" 25 you wont need or want more then one in your raid " .We wont even have a spot . Every Melee class can bring the same CC or interrupts that we do and now can out preform us also no matter how skilled you are.

What makes me upset the most is DS is a joke , Just take it out of the game

TV is lame really i have to build up 3 hp to use and it hits less then my Exo .


theres alot of problems "not just Rets " lots of other classes have issues also & im really just getting tiered of ghostcrawler excuses .

Just fix them plz.
Reply Quote
82 Blood Elf Paladin
7350
Ret PvE DPS has been a legitimate concern since the beginning of beta and it's only grown greater and more pessimistic with time. Being reliant on 20% and 8-20% procs every 3.3-3.8 seconds is horrible design for a DPS of any class.

Ret DPS being based entirely on luck is not fun nor is it conducive to overall balance. With exceedingly unreliable DPS and being stripped of our heals and utility with the exception of Hand of Protection, there's honestly no place for Ret in PvE right now.

There's no dramaqueening going on, google ret DPS statistics at 85 and look at how grim the future is.

Ret seriously needs some help.
Reply Quote
85 Undead Warrior
2965
TV works the same way that combo points work in theory. In practice the "ramp up" is excessively exacerbated through only having 3 points instead of 5.

I see the point of the ramp up in both Rogue finishers and TV, it serves to create an element of risk vs reward and make the investment of saving Holy Power for a larger attack worthwhile. From my limited experience playing and fighting against Rets, TV and Holy power doesn't feel right. The game mechanic effect of the ramp up is very important, however it doesn't work for rogues where 3, 4, and 5 combo points all seem to yield much better results in comparison to 2 Holy Power.

As a Warrior I certainly feel your pain about lack of contribution as a DPS without CC. If it makes you feel any better (it made me feel better) Cata isn't currently an absolute CC fest like TBC was. More along the lines of Vanilla CC, you keep a target or two controlled and there is room in a group for people without a CC contribution.

That is all just my feelings on the matter. A major issue is that they just dropped a large amount of attacks, specifically Holy damage, from Retribution's arsenal and I imagine it will take a fair bit of time to sort all of that out.

My advice, for what it is worth, is not to call out Ghostcrawler or blame Blizzard for not replying. I understand you and a large number of Ret Paladins feel left out in the cold, but you should understand that everyone at Blizzard HQ is likely extremely busy at the moment with Cata coming out.

You are clearly a frequent DPS member of current content. I imagine this isn't likely to change. The most constructive thing you can do is begin logging your DPS and the DPS of as many other Ret Paladins as you can. Then, if you have a math nerd you can sort through it in depth to try to pinpoint the problems. This doesn't always work, and it certainly doesn't always work quickly, but I have seen it work. Drawing Developers attention to a problem with concrete numbers is most likely the best chance you have to get looked into. Landsoul has a helm for a reason.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
11935
also whats blowing my mind is the lack of damage we are doing but the amount of threat we pull , i really dont understand it. I use salv i even spec into it for the reduced CD .If anybody could plz explain to me how this could be .
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
11935
12/05/2010 4:46 AMPosted by Grumble
TV works the same way that combo points work in theory. In practice the "ramp up" is excessively exacerbated through only having 3 points instead of 5.

I see the point of the ramp up in both Rogue finishers and TV, it serves to create an element of risk vs reward and make the investment of saving Holy Power for a larger attack worthwhile. From my limited experience playing and fighting against Rets, TV and Holy power doesn't feel right. The game mechanic effect of the ramp up is very important, however it doesn't work for rogues where 3, 4, and 5 combo points all seem to yield much better results in comparison to 2 Holy Power.

As a Warrior I certainly feel your pain about lack of contribution as a DPS without CC. If it makes you feel any better (it made me feel better) Cata isn't currently an absolute CC fest like TBC was. More along the lines of Vanilla CC, you keep a target or two controlled and there is room in a group for people without a CC contribution.

That is all just my feelings on the matter. A major issue is that they just dropped a large amount of attacks, specifically Holy damage, from Retribution's arsenal and I imagine it will take a fair bit of time to sort all of that out.

My advice, for what it is worth, is not to call out Ghostcrawler or blame Blizzard for not replying. I understand you and a large number of Ret Paladins feel left out in the cold, but you should understand that everyone at Blizzard HQ is likely extremely busy at the moment with Cata coming out.

You are clearly a frequent DPS member of current content. I imagine this isn't likely to change. The most constructive thing you can do is begin logging your DPS and the DPS of as many other Ret Paladins as you can. Then, if you have a math nerd you can sort through it in depth to try to pinpoint the problems. This doesn't always work, and it certainly doesn't always work quickly, but I have seen it work. Drawing Developers attention to a problem with concrete numbers is most likely the best chance you have to get looked into. Landsoul has a helm for a reason.


Ya i dont ever QQ just tonight i felt totally bummed after my run , I wish i had math nerd because i am not one so i wouldnt be able to pinpoint anything .
Reply Quote
85 Undead Warrior
2965
I certainly get it.

I'm not a math guy either really, so I can't help you out there.

Stay gold man, it'll come. Just a matter of soon™
Reply Quote
85 Dwarf Paladin
5385
My prediction is that we'll get to 85, everyone will realize it sucks. Nothing will be done for the first major patch, and we'll get a "We'll do it next patch". On the second major patch, we'll receive major buffs and sweeping class changes, which will be tested for two months on the PTR with all numbers showing it's balanced. Then, it'll go live, and immediately the forums will fill with complaints of morons wondering why the one class they were able to kill is now capable of fighting back. Within a week, we'll see a hotfix that is meant to nerf us TO THE GROUND, which will also carry its huge share of bugs.

Third patch, more changes. The class will become balanced in PVE, but remain subpar in PVP. Then we'll get a "Don't worry, we got something good for ret in the next expansion!"

In the meantime, if ret doesn't work at all at 85, I'll just switch to my worgen priest and be OP for a while.
Reply Quote
80 Blood Elf Paladin
3700
What game are you guys playing? I play world of Warcraft. In that game Ret pallys are doing great damage at 85 in epics. One might even say to much.
Reply Quote
85 Dwarf Paladin
5385
12/05/2010 5:57 AMPosted by Slayeadin
What game are you guys playing? I play world of Warcraft. In that game Ret pallys are doing great damage at 85 in epics. One might even say to much.


That seems completely the opposite of everything I'm told­. Unfortunately, I did not participate in the beta, so it's impossible for me to provide personal experience. As I say, I'll wait and see.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
11935
12/05/2010 5:56 AMPosted by Stoutfist
My prediction is that we'll get to 85, everyone will realize it sucks. Nothing will be done for the first major patch, and we'll get a "We'll do it next patch". On the second major patch, we'll receive major buffs and sweeping class changes, which will be tested for two months on the PTR with all numbers showing it's balanced. Then, it'll go live, and immediately the forums will fill with complaints of morons wondering why the one class they were able to kill is now capable of fighting back. Within a week, we'll see a hotfix that is meant to nerf us TO THE GROUND, which will also carry its huge share of bugs.

Third patch, more changes. The class will become balanced in PVE, but remain subpar in PVP. Then we'll get a "Don't worry, we got something good for ret in the next expansion!"

In the meantime, if ret doesn't work at all at 85, I'll just switch to my worgen priest and be OP for a while.
its not even so much we need buffs other then we are to based on RNG i feel this is what is holding back rets the most .
Reply Quote
85 Human Death Knight
4245
"What game are you guys playing? I play world of Warcraft. In that game Ret pallys are doing great damage at 85 in epics. One might even say to much."


This is true
Proof?:

Go search Paragon beta on you tube I think the main one I'm thinking of is Cho'gal. They have 2 Rets beating out warriors dks and locks for the #1 and #2 spot. You can also look at another 1 or 2 of their fights that show roughly the same thing. Also I think a few of the IRAE AOD beta vids show the same thing.

"That seems completely the opposite of everything I'm told­. Unfortunately, I did not participate in the beta, so it's impossible for me to provide personal experience. As I say, I'll wait and see."

Make sure your source is reputable. I make sure I can find several other places outside of these forums saying the same thing before I believe it. If the poster has no proof and/or math I wait until someone else saying the same thing does before I even check to see if their right.

The people that started passing around misinformation are prob just butt hurt because they got beat by a Enhance Shammy and decided to blame everyone else.

I think alot of said misinformation comes from keyboard turning clickers that think things like hit rating are stats only "badz" take cuz hitting harderz is way better than hitting all the time.

Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
8240
12/05/2010 8:11 AMPosted by Dyrtnap
"What game are you guys playing? I play world of Warcraft. In that game Ret pallys are doing great damage at 85 in epics. One might even say to much."


This is true
Proof?:

Go search Paragon beta on you tube I think the main one I'm thinking of is Cho'gal. They have 2 Rets beating out warriors dks and locks for the #1 and #2 spot. You can also look at another 1 or 2 of their fights that show roughly the same thing. Also I think a few of the IRAE AOD beta vids show the same thing.

"That seems completely the opposite of everything I'm told­. Unfortunately, I did not participate in the beta, so it's impossible for me to provide personal experience. As I say, I'll wait and see."

Make sure your source is reputable. I make sure I can find several other places outside of these forums saying the same thing before I believe it. If the poster has no proof and/or math I wait until someone else saying the same thing does before I even check to see if their right.

The people that started passing around misinformation are prob just butt hurt because they got beat by a Enhance Shammy and decided to blame everyone else.

I think alot of said misinformation comes from keyboard turning clickers that think things like hit rating are stats only "badz" take cuz hitting harderz is way better than hitting all the time.


Ya, make sure you check not only the source, but the dates, and be aware of what nerfs/buffs have taken place between that day and close.

Go to the November logs. Only one Ret pally left, and far at the bottom. Same one that was number two a few weeks prior.

Funny how that happens.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
12260
is he far at the bottom because all the dps are within hundreds of one another, or is he far at the bottom by almost a thousand from the top spot? that is perhaps more important than his exact place in the list.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
9670
12/05/2010 4:56 AMPosted by Justicär
also whats blowing my mind is the lack of damage we are doing but the amount of threat we pull , i really dont understand it. I use salv i even spec into it for the reduced CD .If anybody could plz explain to me how this could be .


There's been talk about threat being bugged right now, but a lot of DPSers are dealing with threat, not just Ret paladins. Although Ret paladins are very bursty when it comes to cooldowns. Avenging Wrath enables the use of Hammer of Wrath, and we all know we blow that cooldown at the start of a fight, so it is expected to generate a lot of threat during that time.

Also, our DPS is low at 80 because we don't have Inquisition yet, although we aren't much better at 85, I would say it is at least a 10% DPS boost overall.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10015
I suggest loo

12/05/2010 8:11 AMPosted by Dyrtnap
"What game are you guys playing? I play world of Warcraft. In that game Ret pallys are doing great damage at 85 in epics. One might even say to much."


This is true
Proof?:

Go search Paragon beta on you tube I think the main one I'm thinking of is Cho'gal. They have 2 Rets beating out warriors dks and locks for the #1 and #2 spot. You can also look at another 1 or 2 of their fights that show roughly the same thing. Also I think a few of the IRAE AOD beta vids show the same thing.

"That seems completely the opposite of everything I'm told­. Unfortunately, I did not participate in the beta, so it's impossible for me to provide personal experience. As I say, I'll wait and see."

Make sure your source is reputable. I make sure I can find several other places outside of these forums saying the same thing before I believe it. If the poster has no proof and/or math I wait until someone else saying the same thing does before I even check to see if their right.

The people that started passing around misinformation are prob just butt hurt because they got beat by a Enhance Shammy and decided to blame everyone else.

I think alot of said misinformation comes from keyboard turning clickers that think things like hit rating are stats only "badz" take cuz hitting harderz is way better than hitting all the time.


I suggest looking at logs that include the actual build that is going live, not the one you cite which is a result of a broken and since heavily nerfed mechanic.

That same ret paladin drops right to the bottom of the charts.

12/05/2010 8:11 AMPosted by Dyrtnap
"What game are you guys playing? I play world of Warcraft. In that game Ret pallys are doing great damage at 85 in epics. One might even say to much."


This is true
Proof?:

Go search Paragon beta on you tube I think the main one I'm thinking of is Cho'gal. They have 2 Rets beating out warriors dks and locks for the #1 and #2 spot. You can also look at another 1 or 2 of their fights that show roughly the same thing. Also I think a few of the IRAE AOD beta vids show the same thing.

"That seems completely the opposite of everything I'm told­. Unfortunately, I did not participate in the beta, so it's impossible for me to provide personal experience. As I say, I'll wait and see."

Make sure your source is reputable. I make sure I can find several other places outside of these forums saying the same thing before I believe it. If the poster has no proof and/or math I wait until someone else saying the same thing does before I even check to see if their right.

The people that started passing around misinformation are prob just butt hurt because they got beat by a Enhance Shammy and decided to blame everyone else.

I think alot of said misinformation comes from keyboard turning clickers that think things like hit rating are stats only "badz" take cuz hitting harderz is way better than hitting all the time.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
6210
I hear ret damage is great at 85 and that it is horrible at 85. In the end the thing killing ret is its unreliability.
Reply Quote
80 Human Warlock
4020
12/05/2010 9:34 PMPosted by Velcat
I hear ret damage is great at 85 and that it is horrible at 85. In the end the thing killing ret is its unreliability.


Well only one way to find out if its one or the other. Get to 85 and test it for yourself.
Reply Quote
85 Human Paladin
6050
12/05/2010 5:56 AMPosted by Stoutfist
My prediction is that we'll get to 85, everyone will realize it sucks. Nothing will be done for the first major patch, and we'll get a "We'll do it next patch". On the second major patch, we'll receive major buffs and sweeping class changes, which will be tested for two months on the PTR with all numbers showing it's balanced. Then, it'll go live, and immediately the forums will fill with complaints of morons wondering why the one class they were able to kill is now capable of fighting back. Within a week, we'll see a hotfix that is meant to nerf us TO THE GROUND, which will also carry its huge share of bugs.

Third patch, more changes. The class will become balanced in PVE, but remain subpar in PVP. Then we'll get a "Don't worry, we got something good for ret in the next expansion!"

In the meantime, if ret doesn't work at all at 85, I'll just switch to my worgen priest and be OP for a while.
Yeah, I saw this one guy whining about how Shadowmourne was OP, about how the shards you get that increase your STR. Then making it impossible to kill the wielder. And his main was a rogue, go figure. But yeah, we Ret pallies got nerfed. I was doing about 7-9 depending on how I was feeling that day. But I averaged about 8k. Now I'm lucky if I hit 5k with reforging, extra gems, and messing with my action bars. I have good gear with my ret set, 5.5k gs. But I think with Cata I'm gonna go back to tanking. Thats what I started out doing and i think its a good time to go back.
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Paladin
10930
12/05/2010 9:36 PMPosted by Pactmaker
12/05/2010 9:34 PMPosted by Velcat
I hear ret damage is great at 85 and that it is horrible at 85. In the end the thing killing ret is its unreliability.


Well only one way to find out if its one or the other. Get to 85 and test it for yourself.


Why bother, only a lemming jumps off a cliff after others do. :(
Reply Quote
90 Orc Warlock
10990
exorcism?
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]