Improved Soul Fire

85 Worgen Warlock
6080
I was wondering, after reading several posts yet not finding one that didn't quick devolve into QQ, why Blizzard doesn't just switch the Aftermath (tier 3 Destro) and Improved Soul Fire (tier 2 Destro) talents?

Forcing Warlocks to get a constant 15% haste buff is completely against Blizzard's entire new approach to having choices in trees. If they want to make their lives easy they can simply swap the spots of these two talents and make balancing Affliction, Demo and Destro damage so much easier.

I mean if they try to balance Affliction and Demo w/o this talent and a Warlock gets it, well the dps will be through the roof. But forcing a player to spend 7 of the 10 "optional" points for such a large dps boost is just not right.

Are there any other options you guys can think of to solve this issue? I don't even want to get into my thoughts about PvP since Destro's damage will probably be lower as a baseline at 85 due to the expected pickup of this talent. This is fine for PvE where you can keep the buff up but this isn't reliable in PvP at all. Again, any non QQ ideas how to solve this forced spec dilemma?

-Zaef, Shattered Hand
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96 Human Warlock
4805
As many people have stated Zaef, the problem with Improved Soul Fire is that it causes very severe Haste scaling issues for Destro warlocks since we'll be Haste capped way too quickly even if it's moved to a lower tier. The talent in itself just really needs to be reworked into something more manageable and frankly, not as powerful.

If they want to give Destro Warlocks more haste the best way would be to have Improved Soul Fire have a chance to reset the cooldown on Conflagrate.
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90 Human Warlock
11285
12/06/2010 9:27 AMPosted by Khellan
As many people have stated Zaef, the problem with Improved Soul Fire is that it causes very severe Haste scaling issues for Destro warlocks since we'll be Haste capped way too quickly even if it's moved to a lower tier. The talent in itself just really needs to be reworked into something more manageable and frankly, not as powerful.

If they want to give Destro Warlocks more haste the best way would be to have Improved Soul Fire have a chance to reset the cooldown on Conflagrate.


To do that they'd need to rescind our 12% across the board nerf, which even if they followed your suggestion (based on how they "balance" locks historically) they won't. They need a tier 2 destro spell that affliction will at least possibly benefit from. This has gotten bad enough that I'm probably switching mains and I've played a lock since vanilla. I hate to give up on all the achievements and the history I have with this toon but the lock isn't fun anymore, they've turned the class in to a kludge of half thought through ideas that they tossed in a blender. And yes, I am pissed about it.
Edited by Cryptwind on 12/6/2010 9:37 AM PST
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96 Human Warlock
14055
12/06/2010 9:01 AMPosted by Zaef
I was wondering, after reading several posts yet not finding one that didn't quick devolve into QQ, why Blizzard doesn't just switch the Aftermath (tier 3 Destro) and Improved Soul Fire (tier 2 Destro) talents?

<snip>
Are there any other options you guys can think of to solve this issue?


The solution is to get rid of the talent completely. Your suggestion will make things easier for Affliction & Demonology, but Destruction will still be hamstrung with it. The 15 second cooldown on the effect is pointless - what's wrong with Empowered Imp causing it to go into effect? What's wrong with wanting to cast it early, because you know you'll need to move soon and you don't want the buff to fall off)?

But even with that - balancing around a 15% haste buff for any spec will just cause haste scaling to collapse in on itself. Destruction fell apart at the end of Wrath primarily because haste started becoming useless, and this talent will just cause that to happen again.
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90 Undead Warlock
6875
Blizz overhauled the whole game. There were bound to be ideas that totally failed either in execution or in design.

They've fixed much of the execution failures by tuning. Design failures are harder to fix.

ISF is a failure of design. Not only is it terrible gameplay (and makes the class incredibly frustrating), the scaling issues basically cap lock progression at the very first tier of raiding.

Sometimes things just don't work out. The talent - along with casting soulfire at all - needs to get tossed in the garbage bin.
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90 Human Warlock
17825
Whatever happens at this point, ISF will be remembered for having made it in the game far into the process without anyone at Bliz thinking 'hey, maybe this horrible fetid atrocity that is bad in three dozen ways should not be allowed to hit a live server'.
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85 Worgen Warlock
6080
12/06/2010 9:37 AMPosted by Cryptwind
To do that they'd need to rescind our 12% across the board nerf, which even if they followed your suggestion (based on how they "balance" locks historically) they won't. They need a tier 2 destro spell that affliction will at least possibly benefit from. This has gotten bad enough that I'm probably switching mains and I've played a lock since vanilla. I hate to give up on all the achievements and the history I have with this toon but the lock isn't fun anymore, they've turned the class in to a kludge of half thought through ideas that they tossed in a blender. And yes, I am pissed about it.


Well frankly I dislike this idea. I personally feel the first two tiers of every tree should be utility or fun abilities. Either that or make them class-wide benefits, because other than that everyone will be forced into a set spec.

I know that ISF is really broken but without it our dps is abysmal! I really think they should just up the proc chance on the Empowered Imp. This would help both in PvP and PvE without causing balance issues to Warlocks of Affliction or Demonology preference. Also, if those of you reading are worried, upping the instant proc chance on SF via Empowered Imp wouldn't make us crazy bursty in PvP because it's not likely anyone will get the Dark Arts talent for PvP. Thus, the Imp has a very long cast time on his Firebolt.

Thanks for the feedback and I'm glad to see I'm not the only one worried. Though I think my concerns are a little different than most everyone else's being primarily a PvP player though I do raid. But, actually, that just should shed more light on this problem: that so many of us are concerned with the seemingly limitless faults in this talent and it's location.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
3930
the 19 page post about this just below yours is all QQ?

its highly rated, thumbed up hundreds of times, and has 19 pages... why did you make a new post again?
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