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this isn't a qq thread just saying, but can i get some feedback on PVP rogues from anyone in the beta? like are they even any good? i have seen some amazing sub rogues(my fav spec) but also some bad ones and people claim that they're good and bad, what makes them bad or good? are they even worth playing? i'm really outgeared compared to other people and i'm doing pretty dang good.. what about combat or assassin? are they viable pvp specs in cata? lastly what about pve :P is combat still good for raiding because i would rly hate to raid as sub..
From what I saw, sub is fine in pvp, assassination is fine in pve. Combat is a little low, but blizzard is fixing it. Then again, most rogues don't like the new mechanics with combat to begin with.
It's really hard to tell how good rogues actually are because rogues as a class tend to play the victim card, but you see good rogues doing some amazing stuff in pvp.
Basically, i'd just wait the 2 days and find out for yourself. if rogue damage isn't good, blizzard will buff it. You have nothing to worry about. If you have issues with mechanics you're probably stuck... till 4.1.
And yes, your post sounds like a QQ thread, just the way you phrase things.
Here is the issue rogues have and why so many including myself do feel that class is victimized especially in arena/rated BGs.
First, being a pure melee means having no secondary role options nor any significant alternatives to how we deal damage already. It pigeonholes the class and now it will most likely have just one viable spec for PvP, which is Sub. Outside of a dispel cleave or some gimmick comp neither Assassination nor Combat have the mobility to be competitive.
Second, Subtlety is now forced to use Backstab exclusively as a main attack. Not just that it's more beneficial to use, but that there simply isn't another viable main attack as hemo continues to do horribly pathetic damage. Anyone with half a brain can maneuver as to make it extremely difficult to use positional attacks. The tree still has talents that will never be taken... ever, in general it's bloated, it has too many talents/mechanics dependent on stealth requirements, and of course the mastery is absurdly horrible.
Finally, even ignoring all the problem Subtlety has it can be played around, but then it comes down to the point that it's twin spec Feral and Arms Warriors are superior in almost every way. Superior damage, superior mobility, and superior CC and/or survivability. There were cases where rogues had superior synergy with certain casters and that kept rogues competitive for most of WotLK, but that is also no longer the case. Having MS over Feral is pointless with it nerfed from 50% to 10% and having Kidney Shot and even our new redirect on a 1min CD can't compete with an Arms Warrior's Throwdown on 45secs CD.
There is actually a lot more I could go on about, but it's just frustrating thinking about it.
Edited by Subversiv on 12/5/2010 10:55 PM PST
i just made a combat rogue to mess around in pvp and i have to say, combat is by far my favorite spec. its very versatile, being able to get kills in a number of different situations, unlike sub where it is revolved around the idea of appearing behind your enemy and killing them in one flurry of attacks (if you dont kill them fast enough as a sub, your screwed unless if your vanish is available). as for assassin, i have not tried it yet, but i will.
about combat rogues, i found that all you need (at least in the early levels) crippling poison, medallion/insignia of the horde/alliance, and whatever attacks you are fond of. with my crippling poison equipped, i like to sneak up (usually to spell casters), cheapshot, sinister strike, and kidney, giving me enough time for plenty of attacks before they can do anything. if that still leaves the enemy standing, then my crippling poison has taken effect so they arent going anywhere. this way my vanish is reserved for when i am overwhelmed and need to make a getaway. since i am a blood elf rogue, if the enemy is a healer, or has some other spell that can maybe immobilize me (medallion/insignia), arcane torrent. that usually gives me enough time to finish them before they can use any good spells.
in instances, combat comes in handy for obvious reasons. they dont need to come out of hiding to dish out good dps (again, i do not know if this is the case of assassin) meaning they have decent damage all throughout the fight, and they can do the same good damage to multiple enemies at the same time (blade flurry).
i am still developing my strategy, so tips would be appreciated. also, i would like to know what is considered the highest crit for a lvl 32 rogue, when eviscerate is used with all five combo points.
Edited by Drefri on 12/6/2010 4:04 AM PST
Please don't take the following as a QQ, it is meant merely to explain the viewpoint of many Rogues. Despite my issues with the class, I'd choose no other above it:
You know what I like most about Rogue? Choice. We have a fair amount of it, and we used to have a lot more.
-Garrote & Rupture were good bleeds, now Kitty has good bleeds.
-Cheap Shot & Kidney Shot used to provide a stun lock, now they share DR and you lose DPS and Burst.
-Ambush & Eviscerate still provide some decent instant damage, provided the target isn't weighted in armor.
It used to be that you could choose any of those strategies for any target, or mix them as appropriate. That's been nerfed. Killing in both PvP and PvE is (comparatively) harder now.
Rogue does provide other choice though.
-Gouge is a nice talent (though a Warrior can shout and fear multiple people with no positional requirement)
-Blind is a GREAT distance debuff (though it has a long cool down, Hunter monkeys have better).
-Stealth is WONDERFUL, the ability to choose who and when to engage is part of what it means to be a Rogue (though Kitty Prowl is better at the moment).
-Vanish is even better, and choosing when to end an engagement or restart it is another part of what it means to be a Rogue. It is now "working as intended" (though people are still noticing otherwise)
Don't get me wrong. The combination of all those and more (shadowstep, mutilate, envenom, shiv, etc etc) are all great tools and very useful. So many say playing Rogue isn't fun because blah blah blah, but I find it by far the most interesting and enjoyable class of the game.
Just, be prepared. There is a reason Rogue is the least played class and will probably fall in popularity. Blizzard listens to the players, and most players hate Rogues. Whenever they get something new that makes them competitive (not even overpowered, just competitive), there is a bluster of forum trolls and abusers to QQ about it. If a nerf is removed or downgraded, the community gets into an uproar. If you play a Rogue, prepare to be hated into irrelevance.
But if you like a challenge, there's no better class.
good thread, anyone who has been playing a rogue as a main for awhile would probably agree.
I was gonna write more but decided to leave it at this.
No use adding to the QQ storm either way.
Agreed. And I have found far more enjoyment out of leveling, and playing my other toons in the last 6 months then my rogue and this makes me sad.
Edited by Kartha on 12/6/2010 10:24 AM PST
Edited by Kanoi on 12/6/2010 10:32 AM PST
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