Blizz please, PLEASE re-think Goblin Shaman

90 Draenei Shaman
15165
12/06/2010 12:27 PMPosted by Amantheil

I'm about 3/4 done with "Rise of the Horde". The Orcs were able to call upon the elements to help strike down the Draenei for some time too, however it didn't last. Eventually the elements stopped coming to the aid of the Orcs because of what they were doing.

The elements aren't the brightest crayons in the box, but they do eventually catch on.


I kind of agree that goblin shamans are silly, but I'll play devil's advocate and make a counter to this point.

The elemental spirits of Draenor (that the orc shamans originally worshipped) are not the same elemental spirits as those on Azeroth. They may be more 'pure' than the Azeroth ones. Don't forget that the Azerothian elementals spent a long time being the puppets and minions of the Old Gods. There may be more elemental spirits that have a destructive aspect than there are on Draenor.


Hmm, yeah, I guess that could work.
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85 Draenei Paladin
4215
12/06/2010 12:27 PMPosted by Amantheil

I'm about 3/4 done with "Rise of the Horde". The Orcs were able to call upon the elements to help strike down the Draenei for some time too, however it didn't last. Eventually the elements stopped coming to the aid of the Orcs because of what they were doing.

The elements aren't the brightest crayons in the box, but they do eventually catch on.


I kind of agree that goblin shamans are silly, but I'll play devil's advocate and make a counter to this point.

The elemental spirits of Draenor (that the orc shamans originally worshipped) are not the same elemental spirits as those on Azeroth. They may be more 'pure' than the Azeroth ones. Don't forget that the Azerothian elementals spent a long time being the puppets and minions of the Old Gods. There may be more elemental spirits that have a destructive aspect than there are on Draenor.

If Blizz had come up with lore to this effect, they would have been better off. Congratulations, you just outdid the writing department on lore. Wait, are you RSG?
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9260
12/06/2010 12:27 PMPosted by Amantheil

I'm about 3/4 done with "Rise of the Horde". The Orcs were able to call upon the elements to help strike down the Draenei for some time too, however it didn't last. Eventually the elements stopped coming to the aid of the Orcs because of what they were doing.

The elements aren't the brightest crayons in the box, but they do eventually catch on.


I kind of agree that goblin shamans are silly, but I'll play devil's advocate and make a counter to this point.

The elemental spirits of Draenor (that the orc shamans originally worshipped) are not the same elemental spirits as those on Azeroth. They may be more 'pure' than the Azeroth ones. Don't forget that the Azerothian elementals spent a long time being the puppets and minions of the Old Gods. There may be more elemental spirits that have a destructive aspect than there are on Draenor.


This, at least 2 Azerothian elemental lords I can think of are evil beyond belief bent on destruction of each other and everyone else, Ragnaros and Ahune.

All of the elements of Draenor are still peaceful-ish beings
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90 Undead Rogue
7885
Gnome Priest: Is is THAT far fetched to believe that after years of living amongst the Dwarves (and the Alliance as a whole) that some Gnomes have begun studying The Light? Really?

Goblin Shaman: The elements are like other beings. Different personalities. Different agendas. They aren't mindless. There are even factions in WoW (Hydraxian Waterlords anyone?) that are elementals that you can gain rep with. It's not that strange that the Goblin Shamans commune with those elemental forces that are looking for more than just a "spiritual connection".

Worgen Druid: The Worgen curse originated from Druidism itself. A radical faction of Night Elves, the Druids of the Scythe, worshiped the Wolf Spirit, Goldrinn and were the first to shapeshift into Worgen forms. They lost themselves in the transformation and thus the first Worgen were created. It makes sense that not only are the Night Elves the ones to bring the Worgen (back) into the Alliance but also teach some Worgen Druidism because it's essentially the essence of what their curse is.

(Before you become a Worgen, as a Human Gilnean Druid you're referred to as a "Harvest Mage". Apparently the Gilneans had practitioners of rudimentary nature magic)
Edited by Mallek on 12/6/2010 12:32 PM PST
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60 Blood Elf Warrior
560
Goblin shaman make more since than tauren paladins/priests. or the simple fact that gnomes can wear plate without shattering their bones. Don't touch my gobbos. *angryface*
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52 Human Warrior
650
It's always fun to see people who don't know the lore complaining about the lore.
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90 Night Elf Warrior
0
I can't stand people who think the lore Metzen came up with is unable to be expanded on or developed with further,... developments. It's like you just want to feel better than others, so you pretend there's a law being broken. Worgen Druids make perfect sense if you actually follow the lore and how they are explained. I think the issue is, people come to this community and see the knee jerk reactions over "lollore" and just spread these shallow opinions like some kind of meme.
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85 Troll Druid
1320
12/06/2010 12:34 PMPosted by Elrith
I can't stand people who think the lore Metzen came up with is unable to be expanded on or developed with further,... developments. It's like you just want to feel better than others, so you pretend there's a law being broken. Worgen Druids make perfect sense if you actually follow the lore and how they are explained. I think the issue is, people come to this community and see the knee jerk reactions over "lollore" and just spread these shallow opinions like some kind of meme.
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Community Manager
I thought about it. I think we'll keep them.

12/06/2010 11:50 AMPosted by Raimeus
These are the elements were're talking about, not some stupid jungle trolls. They don't bend to one's will, rather, they assist those they deem worthy to call to them.


The elements have quite the history of being somewhat easily exploited by any conjurer with a couple reagents and a few words to summon simple elementals.

And, really, if the Light can be exploited, then certainly the elements can.

I think the point here is intent. Even though the goblins may first and foremost be looking toward personal gain, their actions in-turn happen to be defeating horrible demons, life-stealing undead, and world-killing dragons. The Light and elements probably don't mind that too much.
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82 Blood Elf Mage
1380
I look forward to making my Goblin Shaman!!! YAY!
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90 Draenei Shaman
15165
12/06/2010 12:37 PMPosted by Bashiok
I thought about it. I think we'll keep them.

12/06/2010 11:50 AMPosted by Raimeus
These are the elements were're talking about, not some stupid jungle trolls. They don't bend to one's will, rather, they assist those they deem worthy to call to them.


The elements have quite the history of being somewhat easily exploited by any conjurer with a couple reagents and a few words to summon simple elementals.

And, really, if the Light can be exploited, then certainly the elements can.

I think the point here is intent. Even though the goblins may first and foremost be looking toward personal gain, their actions in-turn happen to be defeating horrible demons, life-stealing undead, and world-killing dragons. The Light and elements probably don't mind that too much.


So it's more of a "means to an end" situation? The elements may not be completely agree with how the Goblins do things, but at least they're fighting the same enemy.

Works for me, thanks :)
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Community Manager
12/06/2010 12:41 PMPosted by Raimeus
So it's more of a "means to an end" situation? The elements may not be completely agree with how the Goblins do things, but at least they're fighting the same enemy.

Works for me, thanks :)


It's also important to note that the elements are not 'good' or 'bad' but instead strive, as elements do, for balance. You could make the argument that the majority of enemies we fight, in one way or another, disrupt the balance, and thus their end is desired by the elements to set things straight.

And you could also potentially argue that you yourself are a disruption to the balance. I think you just have to accept some of that stuff as a victim of this being a game and not a book.

If we had a book where someone took a hundred pages going around killing raptors trying to get enough leather so they could learn to become a better leatherworker, it'd probably be a pretty weird book. In the same way if we tried to force a game and all of its mechanics into a strict adherence of rules in how these things interact it'd probably be a pretty weird game.
Edited by Bashiok on 12/6/2010 12:51 PM PST
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85 Troll Druid
3355
12/06/2010 12:50 PMPosted by Bashiok
If we had a book where someone took a hundred pages going around killing raptors trying to get enough leather so they could learn to become a better leatherworker, it'd probably be a pretty weird book. In the same way if we tried to force a game and all of its mechanics into a strict adherence of rules in how these things interact it'd probably be a pretty weird game.
i would read this book, just to say i did
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90 Draenei Shaman
15165
12/06/2010 12:50 PMPosted by Bashiok
12/06/2010 12:41 PMPosted by Raimeus
So it's more of a "means to an end" situation? The elements may not be completely agree with how the Goblins do things, but at least they're fighting the same enemy.

Works for me, thanks :)


It's also important to note that the elements are not 'good' or 'bad' but instead strive, as elements do, for balance. You could make the argument that the majority of enemies we fight, in one way or another, disrupt the balance, and thus their end is desired by the elements to set things straight.

And you could also potentially argue that you yourself are a disruption to the balance. I think you just have to accept some of that stuff as a victim of this being a game and not a book.

If we had a book where someone took a hundred pages going around killing raptors trying to get enough leather so they could learn to become a better leatherworker, it'd probably be a pretty weird book. In the same way if we tried to force a game and all of its mechanics into a strict adherence of rules in how these things interact it'd probably be a pretty weird game.


I blame the book I'm reading for all this. It lead me to believe that the elements were actually good. Granted, they're elements on a different planet...

Guess I'll just have to shrug it off then. I'll still stick with my new Orc Shaman though :)
Edited by Raimeus on 12/6/2010 12:58 PM PST
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37 Troll Druid
290
Well, Bashiok convinced me. For the record.
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85 Tauren Druid
9460
I think it's fair to say that the Goblins as a playable race, generally, make little to no sense. But the marketing said it would be a very popular thing to do (and that much is clearly true), so they went with it, and tried to retrofit some lore to justify it.

Can't blame them, really. It's a game after all. And hardcore fans have been critical of the lore bastardization pretty much since the later Vanilla days onward. Space goats presented massive inconsistencies in lore, and I seem to remember Chris himself had to post on the boards and basically said "well guys I just f'd up - sorry but I forgot my own story".

But we all got over it and moved on. I guess we'll do the same with the Gobo's. /shrug
Edited by Jynks on 12/6/2010 12:57 PM PST
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8025
•Human Hunters - Is there really that great of a difference between an archer and a hunter in WoW?

Yes. I'm a pretty good shot and all, but I'll be damned if I could train a giant crab to kill on command.
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90 Draenei Shaman
15165
12/06/2010 12:58 PMPosted by Mif
So a few hundred threads and thousands of posts over the course of months asking why Gnomes get screwed over with less class choices than any other race = Ignored by blues.

Idiot post about getting rid Goblin shamans 12 hrs before servers go live = Blue replys.

GG Blizz


First, thanks, love you too shortstuff.

Second, where in my post did I ask Blizzard to remove the class combo?
Edited by Raimeus on 12/6/2010 1:01 PM PST
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